Dissapointed

legion · 09-09-2007, 05:27 PM

I'm four weeks through my 8-week welding class.

So far, I've learned how to make puddles with an oxy-acetylene torch on scrap metal and how to read welding-symbols...not what I was looking for when I signed up for the class (and not mentioned in the course description).

So I turn to the brain-trust here for some of the information I was looking for about welding.

If I wanted to do a roll-cage or build a tube-frame for a car from scratch, what form(s) of welding would give the best results? Stick (SMAW), MIG, TIG? What kind of welding machine would I use?

rouxroux · 09-09-2007, 05:49 PM

Legion, I learned more about welding from Richard Finch's books than the classes I took. He's got a book called "How to weld damn near anything" and another one titled "Performance Welding". He is THE MAN when it comes to welding (and Corvairs as well. Have used his books for decades...He even featured one of my Corvairs in his Corvair Air Conditioning book).

Straight answers, great technique-building hints. Jessee James even quotes him in many of his writings as the best welding instructor.

legion · 09-09-2007, 05:58 PM

I will order that book.

trekkor · 09-09-2007, 06:40 PM

I built my car trailer, a 1300# BBQ trailer, my track car rollcage and my buddy built a huge trailer mounted BBQ smoker with my 110v Lincoln MIG welder from Home Depot.

It will weld 5/16" think material or all the way down to sheet metal.

You can weld with straight C02 like all the big production and construction welding shops.
The tri-mix/bi-mix gasses look a litle prettier.

You will learn how to weld if you practice with a small pile of various steel scrap and a few hours.

Go for it!

KT

Joeaksa · 09-09-2007, 10:10 PM

TIG and MIG are both excellent. That said, I still use Oxy/Acc most of the time for small things.

Sounds like the instructor is moving the class at a very slow pace instead of realizing that you are at idle when you should be in 3rd gear by this time.

legion · 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Sounds like the instructor is moving the class at a very slow pace instead of realizing that you are at idle when you should be in 3rd gear by this time.

The labs are moving unbearably slow. The lectures are moving at light speed. I think we are 5-6 chapters ahead in the lectures than the labs. The instructor lectures from the notes provided with the book, and never expands on or gives any context to any topic. When asked questions, he rambles around the topic at hand until the student gives up asking.

The class has nine people in it. A friend and I are trying to learn welding as a hobby. The other 7 people are trying to learn it as a career. We are about 10 years older than the other people in the class. So far, we weld better too. Instructor gives a lab assignment, and we go do it. Most of the rest of the class is 2-4 assignments behind us.

cashflyer · 09-10-2007, 05:30 AM

MIG seems to be the do-all setup now. You mention roll cages and tube frames, and MIG will be fine.

I took 1 semester of welding in college, and everything else I know I learned from other professional welders. Once you have the basics down, your best teacher is PRACTICE. Welding is a skill that must be used in order to become and remain proficient.

mb911 · mb911's Garage

Well I teach welding just over the border from you. Our students get that stuff as well but if you sign up for specific things we tailor it towards your needs. I had a retired airline pilot make a 1/4 steam locomotive cause he wanted to learn how to build pressure vessels. It really depends where you sign up and what they teach. we do it all. even show the ocasional fuch weld repair, and mag case repair

many944s · 09-10-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb911

Well I teach welding just over the border from you. Our students get that stuff as well but if you sign up for specific things we tailor it towards your needs. I had a retired airline pilot make a 1/4 steam locomotive cause he wanted to learn how to build pressure vessels. It really depends where you sign up and what they teach. we do it all. even show the occasional fuch weld repair, and mag case repair

MB911, I have a couple of questions for you on Mag Case welding, I'll send you a PM.

Chris, I have built several roll cages, swaybar strut-bars, and even a full tubular chassis using a Lincoln Tig 225. If you want good solid welds that penetrate your material and form a good structural weld, I would use Tig and fill rod. I tried using my Mig welder on the tubular chassis, but getting the inside tight spots was tough, with the Tig, it worked beautifully. What I really love about Tig welding rollbars and the sort it being able to "beehive" the weld with out it getting ugly. Hmm, is it time for a welding get-together? (Just kidding)

Just my .02 worth.
-Nick

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

When I look at the seams on SSI's or Fabspeeds I just think I'll never get to that level. A neighbor is also doing a night class now, so I'll see what he thinks of it before I sign up.

Porsche_monkey · 09-10-2007, 10:52 AM

I thought approved roll cages required a specific grade of tubing that was supposed to be tig welded? But this contradicts me....

http://www.snoreracing.net/post/05rulechange.htm

I would mig weld using a 'good quality' machine. i.e. not a 115 Volt home machine. What you see at your course is likely a very good machine. 035 wire. All it takes is practice, which, of course is why you signed up...

mb911 · mb911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by many944s

MB911, I have a couple of questions for you on Mag Case welding, I'll send you a PM.

Chris, I have built several roll cages, swaybar strut-bars, and even a full tubular chassis using a Lincoln Tig 225. If you want good solid welds that penetrate your material and form a good structural weld, I would use Tig and fill rod. I tried using my Mig welder on the tubular chassis, but getting the inside tight spots was tough, with the Tig, it worked beautifully. What I really love about Tig welding rollbars and the sort it being able to "beehive" the weld with out it getting ugly. Hmm, is it time for a welding get-together? (Just kidding)

Just my .02 worth.
-Nick

yeah we can have a 1 day welding class here. bring your porsche

lm6y · 09-10-2007, 02:45 PM

Hang in there Legion, You know more than I do about welding.

lookin · 09-10-2007, 07:32 PM

My father was the state fair welding champ when he was younger, so I asked him what I should do when I decided to learn how to weld.

He told me to purchase the books others have suggested. He also suggested I buy lincoln's mig 110 because it's portable and so easy to use (he uses a hobart). I bought the flux core model of the welder and love it. I've also bought the mig kit, but have not yet installed it. The nice thing about the lincoln is you can just flip up the side panel to see how you should set up the welder for different thicknesses of metal. Easy.

My big tips: (and I'm a beginner)

1. find a scrap yard and ask for some scraps to practice on.
2. make sure the metal is clean.
3. rest your arm on your other arm or leg while you,re welding as shaking will make a bad weld.
4. if the welder is setup correctly it'll sound like you're frying eggs.
5. do not weld galvanized matl as it has toxic fumes.
6. wear a full mask, not just goggles like i once did.

7. weld in a well ventilated space due to fumes.
8. practice.
9. go buy the welder.

funny side story. my house almost burned in a wild fire. when we evacuated, all I took was my cpu, pictures, some clothes, the wife, dog and my welder. I'm still teased about that.

have fun,

Dale

aigel · aigel's Garage

Lincoln weld pack 100 comes even with a video and get a couple of books too. You need gas. Then start by making your own welding cart, a bbq and other non critical things. Soon you will have a pretty good weld going before you go to any structural work.

Cheers, George

trekkor · 09-10-2007, 09:10 PM

Yep, that's the one I have.
I just don't ever see the need for a machine that will weld metal thicker than 5/16".

I like using .023 wire.

KT

aigel · aigel's Garage

I think I use the same wire. Also, if you need to weld thicker than 5/16, just get a cheap stick welder.

I have welded on my roll bar, my oil cooler and seat adapters on the SC. Many many other things around the house and for fun.

George

aigel · aigel's Garage

I think I use the same wire. Also, if you need to weld thicker than 5/16, just get a cheap stick welder.

I have welded on my roll bar, my oil cooler and seat adapters on the SC. Many many other things around the house and for fun.

George

trekkor · 09-10-2007, 09:32 PM

I learned welding back in high school auto shop over 20 years ago...Yikes!!

KT

berettafan · 09-11-2007, 03:47 AM

geez that class is moving slow. the class i took was opposite; maybe 5 minutes of instruction in the classroom and the rest of the time was spent playing with equipment. we were doing tig by the 4th class i think.

it's good to learn the theory and certainly the career guys will need it but for hobby use i think it's all about practice. welding certainly is an art.

perhaps your classmates would like to get together and talk with the instructor about speeding up a bit?