You might be surprised but a day doesn't go by without me thinking about it. Every single day it guides me. I prefer the pain of remembrance than to just forget. it was too defining a moment for me.

I've worked over 90 days straight now. OT is my only access to the outside world other than phone calls with friends here and there, email. OT keeps my mind sharp and adds to my mental lexicon. If I had any time to work on the E, that's all I'd be doing, but some infrastructure and scheduling problems prevent it. Maybe the end of November I can start back up.

Are you talking about superman, or myself the thread starter? Because i'm actually disgusted that these basic educated labor workers are making more than i'm projected to make when i graduate next year as mechanical engineer, with better retirement and benefits. This is actually one subject that i can't see eye to eye on with superman. I generally read his posts and will sometimes agree with him, or can bend my train of thought to understand his point of view even if i don't agree, but not this time. I've worked too damn long on my education to think someone with a basic high school diploma can make more than me with little to no effort. Not to mention the longterm effects of possibly crippling our auto industry, damn shame.

Funny, you seem to. You forgot the campaign contributions to Clinton, the trading of military secrets for cheap trinkets...

Not the thread starter by any means. I just get tired of someone continously trying to force-feed their antiquated views upon the rest of the sane population.

Read carefully. I would like the auto makers and UAW to reach agreements that make them both successful. If UAW wages and benefits are too high, and I do not doubt that may be the case, then they are not sustainable. Certainly not in the long run. And of course, when jobs and contracts and workers and employers go bankrupt or go outside the country, American workers do not benefit. While I'm not ready to agree that UAW wages are too high, I accept the notion that they may be. The stuff I'm rejecting here is other stuff. For example, the notion that any of this is the fault of the UAW. The UAW is responsible for the welfare of its members. Period, paragraph, end of story. The group that is responsible for the health of the company is......management. The failed attempts I've seen here to transfer that responsibility and blame to the workers is.......let's say it's "misguided." And then there is the brilliant strategy of sending that union and its workers packing, and replace them all......well......I wonder why those management teams are not as smart as Pelicanheads are.

Quite frankly, it sounds like management has played tiddly winks while labor has been playing Australian Rules Football. If the company is going bankrupt while workers are earning obscene money, then management screwed up massively. BTW, that screw-up management team's average earnings are probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred times the average worker earning.

I guess I don't need to say it twice.

[QUOTE=Superman;3526354] If UAW wages and benefits are too high, and I do not doubt that may be the case, then they are not sustainable.

While I'm not ready to agree that UAW wages are too high,QUOTE]


As soon as you come to grips that wages for pushing a button or a broom are indeed too high, then you will understand why the rest of us hate the UAW so much Supe.

You state something to the effect that it is managements fault that the wages are so high. I find this absolutely ridiculous. Unions have threatened to and actually gone on strike throughout the years, forcing the US auto makers to either agree to the increases or go out of business. Back in the 60's and 70's, they could simply raise the price of the cars to cover the rapidily increasing wages. Most cars in the US were domestic and people had no other real choice other than to pay the higher price. In today's world, the auto makers simply cannot raise the prices to cover the ridiculously high wages due to all the other countries who have evolved to the point that they can mass produce items as large as cars. On top of the crazy high wages for what now amounts to mainly "unskilled" button pushers, health care has gone thru the roof.

I know you are a "union" guy, but if you won't admit that the existance of the UAW bears a huge part in the slow death of the big three, then you simply appear to have your head in the sand. I personally dislike ALL unions, as the sweat shop days are over and we have organizations such as OSHA and the EPA in today's world that mandate safer workplaces. I will acknowledge however, that union construction workers are at least skilled and when I post my dislike for unions, I am mostly referring to the UAW. How about just admitting that the UAW is the bad guy here? You can still defend your trade unions all you want. Most of us would understand that you are deeply seeded in that business, but when someone who is obviously pretty sharp on other matters, attempts to spin a yarn about the poor UAW and it's workers.........well it just smells foul.

Why is it that the UAW gets to monopolize labor with the big three?

A more level playing field would be if each manufacturer had its own union...

It's actually worse than that. If any real **** ever hits the fan the Teamsters will strike sympathetically and shut the whole industry down.

Solidarity my man... solidarity.

Hilarious story - and I must preface by saying I'm NOT making this up - not a word.

My in-laws have been in town for the last week or so. This morning, while driving them to the airport the subject of vehicles came up. My father-in-law is particularly proud of his recent purchase of a Dodge Dakota pickup - he likes it, it's good for what he uses it for, etc. Anyway he had generally good things to say about the build quality except for the following (no, I'm not making this up):

Apparently when he went to have a cap put on the back of the truck, he noticed it looked "tweaked" and questioned the installer, who came out looked at it, scratched his head, got out a tape measure and confirmed that the bed of the truck (not the cap) had been installed on the frame a full inch-and-a-half off of true. No joke. This was on a BRAND NEW Dodge truck. He took it back to the dealership, whereupon the service manager confirmed the improper installation. They removed the bed, re-drilled the mounting holes (in the correct location this time), re-sealed, primed and painted the bed and re-installed it. This probably cost them hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Turns out ALL the Dakotas on the lot had the same problem. On BRAND-NEW trucks.

I present to you your "quality" UAW workers who are so deserving of higher wages and benefits. Union quality. Whoo-hoo!

I just hope he's driving at a slow rate of speed when the wheels fall off or is close to a large body of water when it decides to spontaneously burst into flames.

Jeff, the last American vehicle I bought, was a brand new Dakota. It had 8 problems in 3 years and 38,000 miles. The dealership had typically a 2 week wait to have even warranty service performed and they made you pay for a loaner. NEVER EVER EFFING AGAIN!!! I traded it on a used Toyota Tacoma 4 X 4 which I have put 70,000 miles on thus far with ZERO repairs other than a new set of tires. ;)

So tell me how a dual wage system works in a union environment? I'm sure Karl Marx would be proud.