Vinny, don't give it up. Like any activity, once you involve other people, it pretty much goes down the toilet. Get yourself a street-legal enduro and head out of town. Find the fire roads and gravel in your region and start exploring. To me, that's what motorcycling is really about. Pounding the pavement alongside the cars and trucks is just a means to get somewhere and can't be all that enjoyable. Getting out where you're the only one on the road is the way to ride, imho.

I stopped riding, shortly before Nostatic's coyote experience. (do a search). Sold the bike. Just got tired of being an invisible 'target'.

Had a friend hit a deer at about 20mph; about ended him.

Can't blame you. In an environment like that, I'd probably do the same. SmileWavy

Started riding bikes when I was 8?. My first bike was a honda mini trail;). I'm 42 and stopped riding a little over two years ago when I had a hard time remembering everyone I've known who's passed away. When I think about all the accidents, they just happened. Meaning one second they are here and the next second they are gone. They were all great riders, just real unlucky for a split moment. It's a big price to pay for the rush. Wish you the best. Dale

Jesus, to read this thread you would think the minute you got on your bike you only have minutes left to live. I've ridden for 37 years now with one accident back in 1979. Few close calls, but also had a few close calls in a car. Have lots of friends that ride and they are all still alive and riding. Yes riding a bike is more dangerous than riding in a car, but still the number of accidents per miles ridden is extremely low. Gear up and get out and ride!

Right on, Kurt. Of course if we bought into everything the hand-wringing ninnies warned us was dangerous, we would never get off the couch. Been riding 31 years; over a quarter million miles. No serious injuries, although I've been down a couple of times. The vast majority of people riding bikes never get hurt.

The problem is, is that in a car, it's a couple thousand dollars at the body shop. On the bike, it's a funeral. Or a wheelchair.

Tell that to all the people who die in car accidents every day. Far more than on motorcycles.

Or people that die from falling down stairs, or bee stings, or lightning strikes.

Gentlemen - I think you can agree to disagree.

I look at my wife, my life and how good things are going and I think, why the f do I want to mess it up.

I haven't read nostatic's story about the coyote, but it sounds like I can relate. Two years ago I was coming out of blackwood canyon in tahoe at 60plus. It was a classic great day. I was having so much freaking fun. Came around a corner and I don't how I missed hitting the bear. He was running across the street from right to left and I just squeezed by him. It was over before it started. I'm only here due to luck.

My buddy hit a deer coming off Highway 84 earlier this year. He was mid turn when the deer ran in front of him. He split the deer in two and didn't crash. Wild.

Pete lockwood the first guy I knew to have a bad day. He punched a hole in van that pulled out in front of him on skyline.

My sister's best friend fell off the back at 100+

John casperie laid it down an hit a stop sign.

Donny's brother fell off a block from the house and hit a curb.

Matt McDunna head on at 120 -150.

The guy who used to sell jewelry at cook's corner. I don't know his name. He was hit a half mile from cooks by a girl texting on her cell phone.

A coworkers brother (18yrs) bought it in redondo beach a couple months ago.

I also have lots of great memories. One of my favorites is my first date with the wife on my bike. Gotta love a chick who'll hop on your bike while wearing a skirt.

I don't know what to tell ya. I'm done. Bikes are like a drug, so much fun but such a high price.

That's really not a good comeback. There's gotta be a hundred thousand cars out there per motorcycle. Deaths per person/mile... bikes by a landslide.

Good friend has one leg and is thrilled to be alive. Wouldn't have a scratch, even if he'd been in a Mini. or a Smartcar.

Not arguing w/ anyone; just saying what I think. Don't play golf in lightning storms either.

You sound like a crotch rocket rider, lookin, or at least some of your acquaintences must be.

My sister's best friend fell off the back at 100+

Matt McDunna head on at 120 -150.

Those are the two acts of incredibly ******* stupidity that jump out right away. I can only guess on the others. How fast do you have to be going to cut a deer in half? How fast do you have to be moving to punch a hole in a van? And some of the others... "laid it down"; "fell off"; "bought it" (an 18 year old at Redondo Beach). I'm admittedly making some assumptions here, but I bet those were speed (and skill, probably in inverse proportion) related.

Geez, there are thing we can do to increase our level of safety and chances of survival. Or to decrease them. I'm sorry about your buddies, I truly am. But it sounds like at least a couple very obviously brought their grief onto themselves. Like the Honda ad says, "stupid hurts".

I agree with Jeff. .. You have to respect the sport, and know your limits. wear the proper equipment and check your bike to ensure it's mechanically safe. If you've had training, that's even better. A good rider can (most of the time) avoid accidents.

I personally would never ride in the city. too many moving obstacles that can crash into you. I keep it rural, with as few cars as possible and minimum traffic lights and intersections.

For every Todd story there's a bunch more "100mph +" stories. You can't avoid the unavoidable but you can certainly avoid the poor decision. The fact is that many people just don't exercise the maturity and responsibility needed to survive operating a high performance vehicle.

Jeff-

mostly dirt and enduros. never liked the rockets.

I have only chimmed in in order to give a different perspective. I guess to sum it up I'd ask, is the rush worth the consequences to you and/or those that may have to take care of you if you're not killed? If it is, then go for it.

The people I've mentioned were just out having fun and they all died. Matt owned a motorcycle shop and was riding on a rural road. My sister's friend was just cruising along in idaho when the wind caught her. Regarding pete lockwood, you'd be amazed at what happens when a van pulls out in front of you and you're going 70. it ain't pretty. John casperie, was a cal poly student heading home for the night. The only common theme is they all died after they fell off a motorcyle.

I grew up riding bikes. They're are a total rush to ride. I just no longer believe the rush is worth the consequence. Consider me lucky, I got to ride 30+ years without getting hurt.:D

I wish you and everyone the best and hope everyone has many, many years of riding without any problems.

best'

dale

Okay, here is a test case for you.

I ride a vintage Vespa; it can barely crack 40mph; armoured gear incl full-face helmet, back protector, and neck brace; commute 10 miles/day to/from work on city streets in near-zero traffic (going in) and moderate traffic (returning); don't ride at night (yet); took MSF class; am generally paranoid; mid-40s experienced driver w/ zero car accidents in the last 25 years - BUT I am also a new rider.

So, just for fun, care to estimate my odds of getting through the first year uninjured?

75-85%

Speeds are fairly low in PDX. But some of those bridges can be tricky (steel grating), and the wet manhole covers are pretty treacherous.

The only really close call I've ever had was on the highway through PDX. A Land Crusher I was passing decided it had to be in my lane just as I was coming up on its rear quarter panel. I had to hit the throttle, scootch over to the far side of the lane, and duck/lean to avoid the side view mirror. Otherwise I thought the city was fairly motorcycle (and scooter and bicycle) safe.

I would say over 99% chance. at 99%, then that means, statistically, every 100 times you go on your bike, you will get injured once.

John-

I had a 125 primavera years ago and recently sold a 58 allstate. Both were very cool and the allstate would get thumbs up from the harley guys when we'd pull into cooks (a famous harley bar in orange county that may be burning as I type this).

The main thing to be concerned about on a older vespa is the suspension, small tires and it's ability to get out of the way. If it's real old you may consider swapping out the original front fronk for a newer front fork with a dampener. The dampener sp? will help the bike not dive when you apply the front brake. If you read sear's manual for the allstate, it even states not to apply the front brake.:D

If you still have some extra cash, you could also swap the 8" rims for 10" rims. I haven't done this mod, but friends have and they indicate the bike handles better with the 10" rims.

Have fun.

dale

Wow, that's pretty rough, Dale. I think anyone that has been at this awhile, and involved with a lot of people who are, can relate. I've lost a number of good friends and acquaintances to these damn things over the last 30 years of riding. Some were their own damn fault, some were blind ass bad luck. Just like you and your friends. Is that enough to make me give it up? It's too much a part of who I am for that. Maybe that is a little bit selfish. O.k.; maybe more like very selfish. Life has to be somehow worth living, and we all weigh the risks of that vs. the "worth" we derive from any activity. Riding is a part of me that keeps me going.