At least people here TALK about world politics

rammstein · 10-22-2007, 06:43 AM

I disagree with nearly everyone. And everyone disagrees with everyone else. We are all doo doo heads, and everyone is dumb except you.

My point is this- not really much of a point- I am scared and shocked when I talk to someone who never even THINKS about any of this. Someone who doesn't see the GRAVITY of war, foreign policy, taxes, elections, etc.

I relish having pleasant conversations with people who have a different view, particularly when they attempt to back their view with facts and historical reference. At least then, I am having an argument over interpretation and implications.

What I don't relish is either getting a blank stare, or worse, a powerful statement with NOTHING behind it.

I will never forget walking home from work the day "Shock and Awe" happened. There was a large protest, and a girl came up to me with a flyer and said "No blood for oil". I stopped and expected to have a fun talk. I asked her "What would you suggest be done with a country that violates a cease-fire treaty to a war?" She looked blankly at me, and asked "What do you mean?" I told her about how the first Gulf War ended with a cease-fire agreement, which included the no-fly zones and inspections, which we ALL know weren't treated all that seriously by Saddam. She said "Oh." Then she had nothing else to say.

I mean, she COULD HAVE DISAGREED WITH ME ALL DAY. She could have gone on about diplomacy, about sanctions, about anything. I would have disagreed, but we would have talked. So basically, this chick had hippy friends who told her "No Blood for Oil" and she joined in and skipped class to stand out there chanting, feeling good that she was trying to stop a war with flyers and bongos.

To show the other side has its share of dingleberries, it was scary to hear how many people suggested GLASSIFYING Iraq with a straight face. SURE, that wouldn't cause some problems later on...

The Gaijin · 10-22-2007, 06:47 AM

As the Chinese say - "Heaven is very high and the Emperor is far away".

Meaning - there aint a damn thing we can do about any of it, so why worry? (or why bother to find out more details.)

And that is the point of view of most people. And with IPODS instead of morning newspapers and "entertainment tonight" instead of "nightly news" - this attitude is only getting worse..

rammstein · 10-22-2007, 06:50 AM

Oh no- I only got 1 star...

Ok- I will change the thread title to "Robot chicks with boobies are now free!"

Then everyone willl like me again

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammstein

Oh no- I only got 1 star...

Ok- I will change the thread title to "Robot chicks with boobies are now free!"

Then everyone willl like me again

that will only get you stars if you actually deliver, doodoo head

rammstein · 10-22-2007, 07:30 AM

Superman · 10-22-2007, 07:36 AM

Sure, I figure that if everyone knew what I know then everyone would agree with me. But sadly, not everyone is as informed as I am. Nor are they as smart. So while folks are catching up with me, it makes sense to discuss matters. And in the meantime, I have to put up with the frustration of dealing with people whose opinions differ from mine.

The important thing is for each of us to continue to consider the big questions, and to continue to press for public policy decisions and strategies that work for us. For those of you who don't have good sense, I was kidding about being smarter and more informed that others. Sort of. Bottom line is that our differences are not the problem. The problem is apathy. The problem is NOT considering these questions and not engaging in the formation of public policy.

legion · 10-22-2007, 07:41 AM

Supe, have you ever considered that someone could have the same facts and come to a different conclusion? Or, (*gasp*) that someone is better informed or smarter than you?

NICKG · 10-22-2007, 07:42 AM

kinda reminds me of the video of penn and teller sending people to earth day fests and hippie love in's asking people to sign a peteition to ban h2o..
damn sheeple

Dan in Pasadena · Dan in Pasadena's Garage

Ramm - SO many people are almost completely apathetic about world political issues...and I get it too. When I was raising my kids I didn't pay nearly as much attention as I do now. To most, that have no real understanding of the context of any given "thing" that happens on the world stage it is just a neverending stream of bombings and unknown names of world politicians disagreeing about "stuff"

I wish what you stated could happen - "relish having pleasant conversations with people who have a different view" - I've probably never had a "pleasant" talk with others about issues we don't agree on. Seems everyone MUST be "right" which for them means proving your point of view "wrong".

Besides, I don't think I have some particularly charismatic way of expressing myself to you that will result in your saying, "Oh NOW I get it...I agree with your point of view...". Frankly, I don't try much anymore. Apathy? Not exactly...frustration is more like it. And on top of that? The Right and the Left are SO hyper partisan these days I just hate talking about politics. Everyone wants to name call and I'm sick of it. For quite awhile I have been THIS CLOSE to just dropping off this board 'cause I hate the LACK of "pleasant" conversation.

For example, its okay to post a place that ought to be burned to the ground - as there was a thread the other day....but I was/am SITTING in one of the places expressed as being worthy of being burned to the ground and I posted same with the line, "you bigotted mofo"...so I was moderated out of the thread. Great, just great...let people spout off about nuking places off the face of the Earth but don't allow someone sitting in the 'hood to object to it.

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammstein

hey man, that's just a picture
you certainly deliver like a politician!

rammstein · 10-22-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NICKG

kinda reminds me of the video of penn and teller sending people to earth day fests and hippie love in's asking people to sign a peteition to ban h2o..
damn sheeple

That is really the heart of this post. If you are going to sign something, join a party, or fight for a cause shouldn't you do some research first?

I don't believe in recycling paper because of the amount and disposal of chemicals in the process. There are forests of trees planted specifically for paper, and they are in a reciprocating mode, where there's always new ones being planted to replace the old ones. The deforestation of rainforests has nothing to do with paper. I won't recycle paper just because there's a bin there- somebody needs to prove to me why I should do it.

BTW- glass recycling is GREAT and everyone should do that.

legion · 10-22-2007, 08:00 AM

Mark, watch the Bull$h!t episode (Penn's show on Showtime) on PETA. Here is a group that actively decieves members about it's motives, activities, and goals in order to keep fundraising high.

sammyg2 · 10-22-2007, 09:01 AM

The world is full of people who want to protest something they don't understand.
For some reason their own life is so pitiful they need to pretend to have some significance so they latch onto a cause, even though they haven't done enough research to have a clue whether or not their stance is justified.
Happens everywhere, even on this board occasionally. I've noticed it is most common with people is their late teens or early twenties, which coincidentally is the age of most college students. Same kids who think they know everything and their parents know nothing. I was the same way when I was that age (but not to the extend to protest).
All it takes is a professor to kindle the fire and these kids who are barely out of diapers think they can change the world with a protest, but they fail to realize they are pawns and being used to further someone else's political agenda.

berettafan · 09:11 AM

i enjoy some of the discussions here greatly value the non-US viewpoint offered by our foreign posters.

i have found that i make better contributions (and get much more out of discusssions) when i treat others as teachers instead of potential converts. 'what can i learn from this guy' really allows me to learn vs. just typing to make myself feel better about my own opinions.

Mule · 10-22-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammstein

Where are the obligatory "I hate fake tits" guys?

NICKG · 10-22-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule

Where are the obligatory "I hate fake tits" guys?

as long as they ain't rusty...they are fine for me...

Dottore · 10-22-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammstein

I relish having pleasant conversations with people who have a different view, particularly when they attempt to back their view with facts and historical reference. At least then, I am having an argument over interpretation and implications.

What I don't relish is either getting a blank stare, or worse, a powerful statement with NOTHING behind it.

So you take two ignorant people. People who have absolutely no frigging clue about anything. People who are truly even dafter than your toilet brush.

The one goes to a rally and hands out "no blood for oil" leaflets at a peaceful rally.

The other rants and raves on a board such as this about how we should be nuking half of the planet back into the stone age.

You suggest that both of these people pi$$ you off equally - because both are ignorant.

Seems to me though there is a different order of problem here. One is a harmless dupe. The other a hate-monger and borderline (or worse) psychopath.

The one can be cured with information and education. The other cannot.

legion · 10-22-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

One is a harmless dupe. The other a hate-monger and borderline (or worse) psychopath.

The one can be cured with information and education. The other cannot.

You are right. There's no way that anyone is going to convince our military to "glass" Iraq. Those clueless protesters have been pretty good at getting my taxes raised and getting products they don't like banned.

rammstein · 10-22-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

Seems to me though there is a different order of problem here. One is a harmless dupe. The other a hate-monger and borderline (or worse) psychopath.

The one can be cured with information and education. The other cannot.

You're pretty much right on IMO. The hate-monger does not take the time to think things through. If he/she did, they couldn't have those feelings in the first place. A lack of thought process and consideration is my problem with both. Both need to examine WHY they say things before actually saying them.

livi · 10-22-2007, 12:16 PM

It is unpredictable and delusional giving homo sapience too much credit.

It is almost impossible to really know what impression one makes on another individual or congregation. When I am certain I made an impressive impression I might as well be thought upon as a fool. And vice versa.

It is very difficult to learn humility. To understand and respect other peoples opinions without necessarily agreeing with them. Every single individual have a unique back pack which make it more difficult but also in the end more rewarding.

I find speaking come easy with many people, but listening - really listening, is more rare unfortunately. I do not mean the kind of listening that involves shutting up, tilting your head and looking interested. That is good too, can have a very therapeutic effect at times. No, I am talking about listening in a fashion where you truly wish to learn where the person in front of you is coming from and how you can come to understand and possibly learn from him.

Disclaimer: I am, myself, not very good at it. I am just saying..