Welders: If you had to choose one...?

Danny_Ocean · 11:13 AM

I have yet to learn to weld, but realize I will need to with all the projects I have. I would like to purchase (and learn on) a welder that will be most useful to the average "car guy"...welding sheetmetal, repairing broken mounts, adding brackets to rollbars/frames, etc. Nothing exotic, just basic repairs for the average mechanic. Also looking to use for around-the-house projects (a/c stands, decorative components, etc.). My shop has 220v if that matters.

YTNUKLR · YTNUKLR's Garage

If I had 220v capability I would get a 220V Lincoln (that's what I got) or Miller MIG welder with infinite adjustment. If you want a slightly more portable machine, you could think about 110V MIG Lincoln 135 series or Miller's equivalent

Danny_Ocean · 10-21-2007, 11:08 AM

Do you have a model #? I just did an E-Bay search and there are several hundred "Lincoln MIG" welders, ranging from a few $$$ to several thousand $$$. Is MIG easy to "self-teach"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YTNUKLR

If I had 220v capability I would get a 220V Lincoln (that's what I got) or Miller MIG welder with infinite adjustment. If you want a slightly more portable machine, you could think about 110V MIG Lincoln 135 series or Miller's equivalent

Tim Hancock · 10-21-2007, 12:07 PM

Miller Econotig or other brand equivalent. I could not live without mine and almost never use my 110 mig I started with. After all, the question was Welders: If you had to choose just "ONE"....?

legion · 10-21-2007, 12:55 PM

Mig is the easiest to learn.

Tig produces the best welds (if done properly). (Okay, SAW produces better welds, but that's out of the question here.

)

I have no idea what anyone uses stick for...

wrecktech · 10-21-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

I have no idea what anyone uses stick for...

I used a stick welder to fabricate my frame rack and towers. 3/8 to 3/4 plate.

rfuerst911sc · 10-21-2007, 02:03 PM

Hobart 135 I love mine. It's 110 volt and real mig with gas regulators right out of the box. Excellent quality and fair price, I have welded fender flares,engine mount and misc. with zero issues. I'm not a fan of Harbor Freight welders as I think support for them is non-existant, better to stay will Miller,Hobart or Lincoln.

dad911 · 10-21-2007, 03:31 PM

if you have 220 at 60 amps, I recommend the econotig.

BertBeagle · 10-21-2007, 04:32 PM

Re 220 mig - If you ever saw the Miller and the Lincoln side by side with the sheet metal off, to even the untrained eye, you would say "give me the Lincoln"
They are far more robust than the Miller even though on the outside they look similar and are about the same size. (This will piss off the Miller guys but its true)

I have had my Lincoln with infinitely variable wire speed and amperage for 3 years and it is very nice and trouble free.

All that said both will do the job and the amateur welder probably could not tell the difference. A home shop would not have duty cycle issues either unless, possibly, you were building a trailer. I think they are about the same price. If red hurts your eyes then get the Miller.

Zeke · 10-21-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

Do you have a model #? I just did an E-Bay search and there are several hundred "Lincoln MIG" welders, ranging from a few $$$ to several thousand $$$. Is MIG easy to "self-teach"?

If that's all you know at this point, stop. You will waste money until you actually weld and know what you want. Why do I say that? Well, so far I've bought two and I could sell both in a heartbeat if I had the money to buy the right equipment. Don;t have shi!t load of amps in your garage? Buy a gas powered one. the time you spend with the torch running is minuscule compared to fabrication, set up and post welding activities.

I go to welding school; I'm in my 2nd semester. I went to welding school 30 years ago, too. I've been hitting and missing ever since. You can't teach yourself to weld....properly and totally safely. I don't care what others may say.

legion · 04:11 AM

I just got done taking a welding class at the local community college. For $260, I'd recommend it before purchasing a welder.

My goal was just to learn about the various processes and their applications. Well, I learned about the first part. (We spent far too much time on oxyacetylene IMO.) Still, I didn't find the instructor all that insightful and I don't think I'll get much more out of welding 5" plates for four more classes...

dad911 · 10-21-2007, 05:31 PM

Good point Milt. Try before you buy. My mechanic, and the local Miller dealer both let me try equipment before I bought.

Danny_Ocean · 10-21-2007, 06:40 PM

Fortunately, I have a warehouse with 200amp service. I do plan on taking classes, but I'm a pretty good self-learner. Thought it might be satisfying to learn to stick two pieces of metal together on my own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

If that's all you know at this point, stop. You will waste money until you actually weld and know what you want. Why do I say that? Well, so far I've bought two and I could sell both in a heartbeat if I had the money to buy the right equipment. Don;t have shi!t load of amps in your garage? Buy a gas powered one. the time you spend with the torch running is minuscule compared to fabrication, set up and post welding activities.

I go to welding school; I'm in my 2nd semester. I went to welding school 30 years ago, too. I've been hitting and missing ever since. You can't teach yourself to weld....properly and totally safely. I don't care what others may say.

notfarnow · 10-22-2007, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertBeagle

I have had my Lincoln with infinitely variable wire speed and amperage for 3 years and it is very nice and trouble free.

I just bought a MIG welder last week, and that's exactly what everyone told me: get one with continuous (infinite) adjustments for wire speed & amperage.

The welding shops I called recommended the Lincoln 140c as a "heavy use" home hobbyist welder. That's the 110V model, and can weld up to 5/16 plate. The 220V model is the 180c, which can weld up to 1/2" plate and is about $100 more. I wanted 110V so I could cart it around with me and not worry about getting access to 220V.

I've had my Lincoln 140c for a little over a week, and I can't tell you how happy I am with it. There are no "welding 101" night courses around here, so I had to read the manual and learn on the fly. It is really easy to use, and pretty soon you get a sense for what it's supposed to sound/feel like.

DUK · 10-22-2007, 05:44 AM

I have a Lincoln 135plus here at the house and have been able to do everything I've wanted. Even some 3/8 plate with passes on both sides. I use a 175plus at work (building nascar chassis) and even have used Bert Beagle's and will say If I had the service to do the 175 I would, but the 135 is slightly more handy. But, I have access to the 175 anytime I need it so take that into consideration. BTW the charts inside the door of the lincolns will get you close. And I would stay away from the newer 140s and 180s if you can. We've had alot of trouble with them and they seem really touchy to get right.

Also a good project is to build your own welder cart. Lets you be creative plus you can learn how to weld better while actually building something.
here's an idea:

Tim Hancock · 10-22-2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

You can't teach yourself to weld....properly and totally safely. I don't care what others may say.

?????

I never took a welding clas in my life, but I have taught a few friends to weld. I would put my thin wall chrome moly tubing tig welds up against anyones. It is all about learning to recognize proper penetration and avoiding undercutting. I learned at a young age how to stick weld at a friends house. Later in life, learning to mig weld was simple. Anyone can learned to make non critical welds with a mig weld in short order. Tig welding and oxy/acetylene welding takes much more practice, but once one understands the theory of proper penetration it can be mastered thru practice.

Unless you take a welding course taught by someone like mb911 or maybe a custom motorcycle or hotrod builder, you will probaly not be taught all the little nuances that will help you weld thin sheet metal or thin walled tube structures. These can be mastered by some serious practice. Learning how to weld two 1/4" plates together in a class, is not the same skill needed to weld the typically thin sheet steel or thin walled tubing that car guys typically want to weld. Unless you know someone that can help you initially with this kind of welding, IMO, you are better off just buying an old fender or two at a junk yard and cut it up and start practicing on it until you can make decent welds. I think most who become dicouraged with DIY welding at home, typically do not take the time to practice enough on scrap in different positions and after 5 minutes of practice, they try to actually weld on their car and end up with a mess, so they give up.

notfarnow · 10-22-2007, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Zink

And I would stay away from the newer 140s and 180s if you can. We've had alot of trouble with them and they seem really touchy to get right.

I yi yi !!

I just dropped $850 on a 140c

Care to elaborate?

legion · 10-22-2007, 05:54 AM

I'm thinking of getting the Lincoln Invertec V155-S. Anything I should know about that?

Tim Hancock · 10-22-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

I'm thinking of getting the Lincoln Invertec V155-S. Anything I should know about that?

Chris, the inverter tig welders are awesome for welding thin steel and stainless steel, but they are DC only, so welding aluminum is not possible. My Miller Econotig is both AC and DC output, so it can weld both. At times I wish I had an inverter type welder, as a friend of mine bought one a couple years ago and it will weld thin stuff a bit easier than my Econotig due to the fact that the current can be set much lower than my econotig. If I never needed to weld aluminum, I would opt for the inverter tigs.

FWIW, the econotig does a beautiful job on .035" thick steel tubing, but takes some concentration to weld .025 and thinner steel. One can fake it out a bit by winding the ground cable around a steel pipe to rob some current. My airplane's tail feathers are made from bent .025 4130 steel welded to tube .035" steel tube and one has to be very careful to start the arc on the heavier tube or start and or immediately melt a drop of filler rod on the sheet steel raw edge to create a heat sink, stop, then start the weld up paying close attention to adding filler and keeping the arc concetrated on the heavier section. IOW, lots of practice till it becomes natural.

legion · 10-22-2007, 06:33 AM

At this point, I have no intention of welding aluminum. I can understand why you would want to use AC for doing Tig on aluminum, as you get a balance between cleaning oxides and penetration.

I'd like to do a roll cage and then maybe a full chassis from tube. I've often wondered if AC Tig wouldn't be better for that.