Radar detector and cops
 

As you know...radar detectors are forbidden here in Quebec...But I want one anyway...Question: How the cops will know that you have one in your car...? Is there a way for them to detect that...?:confused:

Yes the Police using the Spectre radar guns can detect your detector. The Bel STI was the only one a while ago that was not detectable.

This is an easy one. When you go by, and they go from the "standby mode" to the "instant on" mode you acknowledge to them that you have a detector by the nice bright red brake lights you display or the fact that the car behind you that is following way to close for the speed you are traveling, almost rear ends you. Absent being behind you, when they see the target display go from the "instant on" speed that the unit displays to a lower speed very quickly, it's pretty evident that you have some type of electical warning device or maybe you just have great reflexes. Remember though that RADAR is a verification of what the officer observes, not the other way around. Just like braking at the track before a turn, it's easy to see the nose of the car dive.

BTW, no detector will defeat the "instant on" device with an operator who knows what he or she is doing. It will help defeat a radar operator who constantly "pollutes" the airwaves with whatever band his/her unit operates on.

Haven't seen many radar detector/detectors in state's that allow their use other than with the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Units. They have them because operating a truck in NY over 16,000# with a detector is illegal.

And how is the radar DETECTOR electronically "detected?

Best,

A rader detector has an oscillator as part of it's circuitry, this device emits rf that can be detected.

that is why the hand brake is useful when in super cruise mode - much less noise dive and no tale tale brake lights

From the Valentine One website

If you hear the tones, lift*, don't brake.

*unless you're in a 911 in a turn.

If you have a good detector and you are not the only vehicle within miles, you will easily detect the instant-on radar frying someone else while you are still well outside of the revenue-collector's line of sight. That is when you slow down, not when you are driving past the radar gun. If someone drives around speeding down a highway paying no attention to the presence (or absence) of LE, or other hazards for that matter, a RD will not help them much. They can't make you smart, no matter how much you paid for it. :cool:

Mike Valentine used to have an article on the web about the problems with certain instant-on technologies. Something about taking a reading before they had enough time to go through some critical, self-checking verification cycle. The initial reading was absolutely unrelieable because of this. The manufacturer apparently knows this, and most departments using this model know this as well.

Does this prevent these departments from using them in this mode and busting people when they know full well they may be getting false readings? Hell no. Does this prevent courts from convicting based on these questionable readings? Again, hell no. So what is the answer?

Most folks do not realize traffic courts generally operate under the "preponderance of evidence" standard. This is a level of evidence intended for use in civil courts, where the court must find for one of the parties in the suit. It means essentially that "51%" of the available "proof" tilts it one way or another. It has too, really. The judge has to find for some one. But is "preponderance" appropriate for use in traffic court?

Hell no. The "State" (meaning any governmental jurisdiction for the sake of brevity) has charged a citizen with wrong doing. The standard used to be "beyond a reasonable doubt", just as in any criminal case in which the State charges a citizen. The State changed the rules when no one was looking, to the far lower "preponderance" standard, because they simply could not win under the "reasonable doubt" standard. They are miss-applying the lower standard simply to get more convictions.

Virtually any judge will assume 51% on the fact that you are there alone; on the fact that the cop wrote you. There is no longer effectively any burden of proof placed upon the State to prove you did it. Cop says you did; you did. You are now effectivle guilty until you can prove your innocence. Even with all of the players on the State's side knowing full well there are problems with radar in general, and instant on in particular. I will never feel the least bit guilty for running one in this environment, even if it is illegal to do so. What the State has chose to do in the name of traffic enforcement is illegal as well.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Here in the states, even if a cop thinks he got a "hit" on his detector detector, he still has to figure out who it was. If it is discretely mounted that is all but impossible, unless you are the only car in sight on the road. Even then, if you can get it locked in the glove box before he stops you, he has absolutley no legal right to ask you to open it for inspection. The only things he gets to look at are those that are visible from outside of the car. He cannot look in the glove box, the trunk, under the hood, or under the seats. Any luggage, brief cases, back packs, jackets, or whatever require a search warrant to inspect. So unless it is still in plain sight when he stops you, he will have to get a warrant to find it.

Yes, most will try like hell to intimidate you into consenting to a search. Here in the U.S., they can only detain you for a "reasonable" amount of time. Most courts consider 10-15 minutes "reasonable", after which time, in the absence of a warrant or any evidence, they must let you go. Most won't be able to turn up a warrant in that amount of time. The best part is, you don't even have to answer their questions, or talk to them at all for that matter. Provide them your license, registration, proof of insurance and shut up. If you have stuffed the thing into your glove box, or a backpack sitting next to you on the seat, or wherever, they will have one hell of a time finding it unless you let them.

Radar units require multiple returns AT THE SAME SPEED in order for it to display. Mind you this happens quickly but nonetheless, many identical returns. This is in the violators favor. Braking very hard (hopefully no one is close behind you) will most likely not allow the radar unit to display the target speed because the speed is changing so rapidly. Also returns from much bigger vehicles will dominate the returns that the radar unit receives. The audio portion of the return can be heard for both vehicles, lower pitch for slower vehicles, higher pitch for faster vehicles. Because the dominant vehicle gives a stronger return (doppler) and the unit can acquire the multiples it needs for it's logic, the display will indicate the dominant vehicle along with the audio returns for both.

Many people believe that a radar display is primary information used in traffic courts. This is a misnomer. The officers observation of your speed is primary, and supported with radar, laser or vascar. Convictions have been supported by observations only.

This seems to be a fairly informative site. I love the car with the spectr left on. In the link below you can see a bel sti and then another brand. Not sure of authenticity but sure looks like a real life scenario.

Spectre 4 gun from VA
http://www.guysoflidar.com/spectre-4-in-virginia.html

http://www.guysoflidar.com/

I got nailed on I81 in VA last fall with the V1 on. It blipped a little and I lifted. IIRC I was one of very few cars on the road. I slowed and all the sudden saw something closing fast. I tucked the V1 into the junk in the backseat and accepted the ticket. When the cop pulled off, he had one of those "slicktop" Camaros. A real pro hunting for speeders. I just took it like a man.

I was in the 944 at the time...apparently saying "it's an old car, I don't rust the speedo" doesn't carry much weight. :lol:

radar jammers made here in scottsdale work very well. ask us how we know!

while performing our experiment on the way to baja one wednesday night very late at night we found out that our passport 8500 works very well on CHP's after yuma. we were cruising at about a 100mph in the doolie from hell enjoying life. passport goes off and jump on brakes. in the median is CHP. we have jammer on. we are only ones on I-8 headed west. we continue on and notice headlights behind us. after a while of this he is catching up to our 65mph speed. we turn jammer off. and he comes up behind, runs plate then backs off and we continue on until his headlights gone.

jammer goes back on, and we hit a 100mph again!

dont know mfgs. name but it is made in scottsdale airpark. my only gripe if yer the only juan on the road it will be fairly evident to cop you are the one w/jammer on because his readout says you are going a million miles per hour or ZERO! any cop working radar/laser for any time will know hes being jammed.

it did save us a ticket and possible jail!

[QUOTE=charleskieffner;3548917]radar jammers made here in scottsdale work very well. ask us how we know!

Those are illegal as hell!!! I want one!! Can you PM me where we can buy one? How much was it ?

I watch for HP entering at an on-ramp on a curve. They watch and zoom they're right behind you. Their ramps seems to always need a neck twist to check out. One guy who entered in front of me zoomed ahead at big speed to laser me 10mi later. I was alone on road so limit +5 for me without foreword bait. I-10 in Texas is full of curves and HP entering behind you.

Some western state's HP leave radar on full time during non-tourist season to just slow the locals.

Ohio HP seems the worst. One Ohio HP even tried to bait me with his smoked glass Camaro. Like the guy took it personal that I wasn't speeding in my 911.

..

So you OBSERVE a car speeding and the gun verifies you? Come on dude. Do you guys get your eyeballs callibrated? - Mule

I was just giving you info on what it does and how it's used. Thought it would dispel some misconceptions. Wasn't meant to be arrogance.

This is the real issue IMO. Speeding is a crime where you are guilty until proven innocent. This is a perversion of the justice system.

phazerII jammer-X-Y-K-KA-LAZER(laser) 139.95 on sale 200 bucks retail.

once again................in traffic works perfect. all alone................YER DEAD MEAT! all cop has to do is get on freeway and start clocking you via speedo.

when passport goes off..............grab mongo brake, and disconnect jammer until vizual threat is over. then plug jammer back in and yer "IN-WHIZ-ABIL" ie. stealth mode!

we did this again after leaving baja coming out from mexicali/calexico and this time it was daylight. CHP would hide on top of on ramp, passport would go off and we just slowed down to limit until passport shut up, then turned jammer back on.

while going thru gila gunnery range both ways on I-8, passport was going apeshi!. never saw one cop in az. along that stretch. but lots of miltary helos and fixed wing bombing hell out of range, so in our infinite wizz-dumb, we figured the military was doing radar jamming themselves or lazzzzzer guided bomb attacks on lonely scared sonoran dezzert ante-lopezzz critters!

Save your money, kids. Rocky Mountain has been under investigation for fraudulant claims for some time. They advertise their product as "FCC legal in most states". The simple fact of the matter is that it cannot be and still be effective. The FCC assigns frequencies to specific uses; it requires a license to broadcast on the frequencies used by police RADAR. The jamming device must broadcast on those frequencies to jam RADAR. Remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is...

http://www.radarbusters.com/phazerradarjammerarticle.cfm

Phazer Radar Jammers
You perhaps of heard the radio commercial, promoting a device that promises no more tickets, the Phazor radar jammer.

But does the device manufactured by Rocky Mountain actually mask your speed to the police radar and laser as they advertise? The answer is no!

Radar Roy, a retired Lieutenant with the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and a certified traffic radar instructor, has been interviewed by FOX News and MSNBC for his reviews of products involved in the counter speed measurement industry.

Radar Roy has tested many of the products offered by Rocky Mt Radar, who manufacturers and sells radar detectors and jammers and he never has found one that works!

Roy is so convinced that these products have no effect what so ever in blocking the radar/laser signal that he is offering a $5000.00 reward for ANYONE that can so him one that does.

So before you buy one of their units, you may want to do some further checking on their product!

The El Paso Better Business Bureau and the United States Federal Trade Commission have a large number of complaints that have been filed against the manufacture of the Phazor by customers. These complaints range from false and misleading advertising, not paying the ticket guarantee they they offer, and not refunding money when products were returned. You can view these complaints click here.

Also several television news stations that include 20/20, The CBS Good Morning Show, Extra and American Journal have all tested the products and found that they do not work as advertised. To view these online news shows, click here.

To review Radar Roy's reviews of the latest radar detectors and jammers, please click here

The real easy way to save money on tickets and not have to spend hundres of dollars on a V1 is to....get this....not speed. If you don't wanna get pulled over don't do stupid stuff.

On the one hand we have a thread here about people speeding in front of an individuals house and crabbing that the cops aren't doing enough, on the other hand now the cops are arrogant and ignorant with radar use. Get real.

There is a huge difference between enforcing speed limits in populated areas where speeders are a danger to others, and enforcing them in the middle of bum fuch nowhere on an empty highway or freeway. One is actually a real safety issue; the other is not. Most of us understand that very simple, very obvious difference. Unfortunately, the laws appear to made for those of you that don't.

A freind of mine can just look at a car going down the road and tell you how fast it's going. He is almost always with 2-3mph of the cars actual speed. It is truely amazing and we have tried to fool him put he gets it right every time. I think the guy is some sort of robotic ticket writing machine. He tells me that the radar is just used to verify his observations and he has won more than one case without any radar. It sucks that the system will always put more weight on the officers word than any other evidence, but that's the way it is. The moral of the story is that when we spped and get caught, just accept it and pay the fines. I've heard lots of people trying to fight a ticket, but I've never heard of anyone winning.

If they are using radar, they have to calibrate the device, you can demand to know how long it has been since this was done, how much training the officer in question had with the device, are there any known issues with the device they are using, etc.

Don't they get enough revenue from the gasoline tax?

I'm sure they would love for you to DEMAND an answer to this question on the roadside......

The only time the average citizen encounters the police is during a traffic stop. Speeding tickets are (unconstitutionally) being held to the "preponderance of evidence" standard. Murderers and rapists are often acquited or have rulings overturned for technicalities that closely mirror how routine traffic stops are handled. The average citizen may be inclined to think that in court, murderers and rapists recieve better treatment.

Not a great PR move with the general public IMO.

that is why you do it in court

Flash,

Not that unusual really. In the fixed wing world we do join ups and we are flying much faster, and much further and usually bracket the other aircraft w/in 5KIAS.

S/F, FOG

I'm with Jeff's comments.

Best

Nothing ever happens and nobody ever gets killed on an empty highway right? The laws are there for a reason, imagine if there were no traffic laws or they were not enforced, how safe would you feel about having loved ones on the highway? There always seems to be a lot of complaining on this board about law enforcement, but how safe would our communities be without it.
Steve

Yes, "they" do get killed...and what do you see as the common reasons for "them" getting killed?

We're not talking about "all" the traffic laws,..just the speeding one....Quite obvious the outcome from not enforcing the "other" common traffic laws.

Yes, traffic laws are there for a reason (primarily). What would be Germany's "reason" for not posting a limit on the hall-arse hiway?

The complaining on the board (law enforcement) is not presented in a general context, in my view. Contrary: it is somewhat specific. Nobody on this board has lacking appreciation for what these guys do for the betterment of our society's safety, in terms of "law enforcement" (as you put it).

......I do appreciate what they do,...simply put.

I'm still with Jeff on this one.....there's a difference, as he says. All we can do is change the laws,....or,: continue to defeat them every time, experiencing what these cars were made to do,..all within reason (mine) and intelligent decisions....yes, this can still be done. I will continue to do so....

In fact, I'm up for a jammer (laser) install in December and can't wait to have that capability (although I don't see much of this in my area). The only "ones" left to watch out for are the "patient ones",....the ones who don't pop-off a lot of instant on radar while sitting there,..waiting for the "big fish"...most of the time, they can't wait and you'll pick their signals up (with a good, sensitive detector)...but not always.....you just have to have the feel for your surroundings.

'nough said. Everybody be safe out there,...and forgive them, for they know not what they do. (not)

Best,



It's a game,....after a lifetime of practicing, so far I'm winning.

I can look at a feeler guage & tell if it's .020 or .025. And I've beaten a few cops in court.

Like Doyle says, I think most of us appreciate and respect cops a great deal. The work they do in our communities cannot be overstated; it makes us all safer from criminal activity. Speed enforcement is, however, different.

There are many countries, and even still some states, where speeding on rural backroads with no one around goes entirely unnoticed by the authorities. Even if a limit is posted. No one is any less safe because of that. Employing police officers to monitor speeds on those roads, and issue fines to those that exceed the somewhat arbitrary limits, is not the best or most effective use of their time. That used to be recognized, and cops didn't just sit with a radar gun filling up ticket books. Maybe partly because it was so damn hard to get a conviction. If they saw you doing something dangerous, they would certainly stop and cite you. But not for ten, fifteen, twenty over on a wide open lonely road. Just wasn't worth their time and effort. There was then, and remains today, no real impact on public safety.

Now, however, some one has decided it is worth their effort. Not because things suddenly got more dangerous on our roads. It is worth it today simply because the burden of proof has changed from "reasonable doubt" to "preponderance". They can convict anyone, and collect their money, with no case whatsoever. Suddenly it has become a very lucrative way to spend a cop's day. I'm sure they really don't want to do it any more than we want them to do it (gawd that has to be boring and unfulfilling). The powers that be sure like the money, though. So that is how they decide to deploy our police.

It has been mentioned that the vast majority of us will only deal with a cop in a traffic stop. That has held true for me, and everyone I know. I don't even know anyone who has ever been arrested. Yet most I know have a disdain for police, or more accurately for this use of the police.

It has also been mentioned that a serious criminal has more rights in court than an honest, upright, contributing citizen has in traffic court. That is very true. It is aslo a shame it has come to that. If the state is going to accuse a citizen of anything, from spitting on the sidewalk to murder, their burden of proof should remain the same. Reasonable doubt.

If we were ever able to return to that burden of proof in traffic court (and there are those working on this) we would see these b.s. speed traps dry up and blow away tomorrow. The State Patrol would once again actually patrol. Cops would be freed up to go after real criminals. The departments that have more than they need to do that could trim staff and budgets. And none of us would be any less safe on our roadways.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071025/ap_on_hi_te/gps_ticket_challenge

meaning a patrol officer can do whatever they feel like doing?

The cops here in New Zealand are locking the radar on with one car, keeping the recording, and writing tickets out to other drivers claiming that is what they caught them doing. The judge is more likely to believe the cop. Beware, they are out to get you.