Check Fraud how to press charges?
 

I had a customer write me a $2400 check from a closed account in order to get his hands on a set of plans I was holding until I got paid.

I have never had to do this before, how do I go about pressing charges on this?

Contact your local sherrif's office or state attorney's office.... and maybe see if you can file a quick lein on any of their stuff...

I think you'd have a case for filing a lien on the property in question.

ah, that would also be a felony in alot of places, so he would likely go to jail. call the police and let them handle it.

That what I thought, he purposefully wrote a check against a closed account in order to get the plans from me. Thinking he will not need me again.

Funny part?

I suspected he might do this so I purposefully left some data off so he will not pass inspection and need revised copies. :D

I'll call the Sheriff in the morning and file charges.

Call your lawyer. You have grounds for a mechanic's lien.

I also think you have grounds for a civil suit, as he didn't just not pay you for services, he defrauded you to illegally obtain plans.

Call your lawyer, he can advise you on whether to purse a lien, a lawsuit, criminal charges, or all three.

There is a difference between writing a check with NSF in account and writing one on a closed account. You need a lawyer. Civil and criminal issues here, may not be felony due to amount, but here it is 400 or 500 bucks and it is a felony

Sweet!

You do need to call anyone else in the area that he may try to hire to revise.

I can see him saying he is not going back to you cause you did a half a55ed job.

Call your local police's non-emergency number. Writing on a closed account is much more serious than writing an NSF check. The cops will have you file a report. You might have to push them to refer it to the city/county attorney but if you keep on them they should.

In many states now its 3 times the face value of the check or 100.00 dollars whichever is greater. Get his attention.

Mechanics liens are filed before the fact, not after. The "release of mechanics lien" is recorded after payment is received.

If you ever get where you don't ever want to do business with someone again, and can't get the money through whatever means, as a last revenge, 1099 him to the IRS and let him be responsible to the IRS for the taxes as income.

I have already discussed this with my accountant with some other clients. Its seems the new thing to do is run up a bill, change contractors, repeat.

With the business climate here being what it is, I am in a tough spot, do I chase away potential good clients in an effort to flush out bad ones with full credit checks, etc... Or do I keep going the way I am?

In the last 3 years I had one builder stick me for 23K, I put my foot down and demanded he pay up or I would not do another job for him, he moved on to another Surveyor never paying the bill, by the time I finished fighting with him 90% of the outstanding bills were over 90 days (120 days was normal for this company) and I was outside my legal right to lien the properties.

Another builder went bankrupt, stringing me along with promises to pay right up until the day they closed their doors. 11K gone.

Then a title company stuck me for another 11K, when I started to come after them the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly.

This guy that wrote this $2400 check, has taken over for the builder that went under, this was an unpaid bill from that builder, I have bent over backwards to appease this guy in order to get paid, I was sick of the stories about a bank draw coming any day now for 3 months and put my foot down. So he wrote a check from a closed account to get his revised plans to pull his permit to build the house.

I also just had another client of the builder that went under come to me to finish their property, I have to break the bad news to them that all their bills on their home are unpaid the the builder ran up a $850 tab on their house as well.

If I get both of these two paid up I will have recovered $3250 of that 11K on that one builder.

BTW- That one builder only worked with me for 4 months, just as I started to get on their case to pay up they closed down. It seems there was a surveyor before me that cut this builder off as well, I was told the other surveyor was not doing his job. This is totally believable there are lot of hacks around these parts.

Did you prepare the drawings? If so you have an automatic copyright on them and his use of them is illegal.

Unfortunately, you can expect more of this kind of scumbag behavior from increasingly desperate subs and G.C.s who grew accustomed to thinking the gravy train of endless free-money backed work would last forever.

Porsche-O-Phile - copyright would only keep him from *redistributing* the work... and as a "work for hire" hte theif would probably own the copyright anyway...

Not necc, copyright needs to be transferred by the creator even in a work for hire situation, EX: wedding photogs are work for hire but almost no one owns the copyright to their own wedding album.

This is a good word to the wise. With the economy slowing down and the construction industry in the dumpster, there are a lot of builders who don't have enough money to cover their obligations. It is one of the oldest scams in the book for a contractor to run up a bill with a sub or supplier and either skip out on it or "renegotiate" the charges on the grounds that something is better than nothing. People who wouldn't normally do this get desperate as they start fearing for their livelyhood.

Quote: "Then a title company stuck me for another 11K, when I started to come after them the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly."

Isn't this blackmail?


Don't assume you'll win..

As a favor to the limo company owner who we used for our wedding, I repaired a FAX machine (When they were expensive). We agreed that he would pay for the parts and I would supply labor free of charge. Hey, why not, he had done a good job for the wedding.

$200+ in parts, bring the repaired FAX to his office and he gladly writes a check for the parts cost.

Turned out he wrote the check against a closed account. Said he wasn't happy with the repair....?????? After that I couldn't reach him.

Went to small claims court where he claimed he discounted my wedding services in exchage for the repair.

Does any of this make sense? Limo services were rendered before he even asked for the repair. He wrote a check after using the machine.

The loser judge let the POS off...completely. Maybe because he wanted to side with the local business guy. Who knows.

I walked out of there and 90% of the people, including the court cops, were shaking their heads in disbelief.

Yes, it was and it worked. I am not willing to gamble a client that brings me in this much in a month.

If business was booming I would have hired an attorney and took her to the cleaners.

But, this one client is my bread and butter right now and if I loose them I am closing down my business. There is NOTHING going on around here right now and businesses are closing on a daily basis.

BTW - I spoke with the local building dept and they are on the lookout for the survey and are aware some data is missing requiring them to reject the survey.

I also called the local Sheriff and they have a Check Fraud Task Force, I left a message with the detective and I awaiting a call back.

Not sure exactly how your industry works Jim, but with all the properties I purchased in the last 7 years here (SoFLA), I had to write TWO checks before anything was started with loan/closing docs...one to the appraiser and one to the survey company. Can't you collect up-front before doing the work?

I understand, You gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm having a CO issue with one of my sales right now. Need permits, inspections, survey and an expeditor to resolve it.

Expeditor got 2/3rds of his fee up front, a blank check for permits and inspections and the surveyor was paid before I ever met him or he even viewed my property.

Just the way it is these days.

Hmmm...silence... :confused:

Just saw this Danny.


On larger deals we get a retainer and a signed contract. With builders we work from job to job with no formalities. With title companies we only get the order and with the market the way it is here Title Companies and Mortgage Brokers are not collecting the fee for the survey up front. So I am left to decide, take a chance and do the work with a small percentage of them not paying (1%-5%) or have no work at all and close my doors?

Banks still collect the survey fee up front.


This project we are discussing was a dead deal from a builder that went bankrupt. The guy that wrote the bad check contacted me about getting copies of the survey, I informed him there was a balance due. He informed me he would pay as soon as he got his 1st bank draw. I agreed this seemed fair.

Then he never paid, but, he needed to house repositioned on the property per the owners request so he needed revisions. I told him it was now c.o.d. and he agreed. He brought his checkbook and wrote me a check and I handed him the surveys.

The check was written off a closed account.

You need to change your billing pracitces a bit. Protect yourself, file liens prior to the statue running, whatever the time period is. You don't have to pursue them, but it will protect you and keep your options open. If they gripe about getting papers about a lien, gripe right back about them not being on top of their responsibilities. It is tough all over, cash flow can be a problem. Your momma carried you 9 months, I am only doing it for 1, or 2, whatever keeps you from being assed out.

If someone owes you money 90 days and writes you a check off a closed account, don't you think your colleagues might want to hear about it. File on them.

People don't get bad reputations by mistake.

"...the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly."


They are already hurting your business greatly. I have been in this position before as well. Having a client pressure me to give away my work is not acceptable. If I did nothing, I was in essence, saying that it was alright. If the sister company finds out that you work for free, how long before they want the same deal? Going down this road, things will get worse not better.

Give them 10 days to pay and then go through collections. No one is worth selling your soul for. I know it's easy for me to tell you what you should do but being as close to it as you are, you can lack objectivity. Good luck.

Update, the local police have proved once again the worthless in this. I have repeatedly tried to contact the check fraud division only to get an answering machine and never get a call back.

Mr. Closed Bank account called today, a few days ago I decided to pay him a visit at his home, he was nto there so I left a business card with a simple message. $$$??? Call me!!!

He called today, he wanted me to go do some more work on the property so he "could get his bank draw" this is the same draw for the 3rd time.

I told him off, I said the only way he would see one of my crews was to come to my office with $2400 cash. He then told me he could only get it after he got this work done and got his draw.

I told him to go to the land owner and get it from them explaining how the surveyor has been waiting for over a year to get paid.....

Then I cut myself off and told him to figure out how to do his own job I did not need to tell him how to do it and I hung up on him.



Jorian - I wish it was that simple, if I went after 1st american err..... That title company they could take away the only client I have right now doing anything. 80% of the work I am doing right now is for this client. I have lots and lots of really desirable clients and they are doing squat, nada, nothing they are all stalled int he gates laying off like no bodies business.

Tobra - again I do this with bigger projects with strangers, with title companies and mortgage companies its not that simple, you see if a closing falls through I might get paid, if I do not I have to go after the buyers, the sellers are not responsible, how could I lien their house? They did nothing wrong even though I did a survey of their house I cannot lien it.

Same goes with most builders, I have worked for most of my clients for close to 10 years, in those 10 years only 2 have stiffed me. One is gone the other is in town and very politically connected.

Its just lately with the failing economy most of my hits are happening.

Here in BC if you are not working directly for the land-owner but are doing work that improves his property, you have recourse against the property owner. I guess that is not the case in your area?

I was thinking about this thread while driving up to NC last night.


3 years ago, when I was busy, I put my foot down with a Title Company that was ordering updates on surveys we did for a builder we worked for. In other words, I had done the Survey for the builder and now the house was being resold (flipped) and the bank required a resurvey with the new certifications.

Think of it this way, call your Title Company, tell them you sold a house they did title work on 4 weeks ago and you want them to change the names on the Commitment. This is what was being asked of me. So I would offer a 50% discount since I was only visiting the site for a few minutes and noting if any changes had been made to the property, we would reflag the property corners and then change the names on the survey. This was a real gravy deal.

Well, quite a few fell through and the Title Company refused to pay. I put my foot down and they found a surveyor that would "wash out" the dead deals.

So I lost a real money maker for being firm.

I will NEVER do that again, I lost a huge client because I put my foot down and the money I was loosing on dead deals was nothing compared to the business I lost.

Same deal here, put my foot down and loose money in the long run, or loose 11K now and move on. I learned from my mistake last time.



Wayne, if I could get a cop to return a phone call I would have filed a report by now.

Jim -

Stop by the department and do it in person. Once the report is in the system (any officer should be able to do it) then things may happen...

Mr. Bad Check supposedly stopped by the office today with a cashiers check.

I am out of town and will check it out on Monday when I am back. I guess go to the issuing bank and make sure its legit, then go deposit it. Its made out to my company so I do not think I can walk in and cash it.

I guess my yelling at him worked. It sucks that you have to treat some adults like bad dogs.