To: My dear friend MR Porsche-o- Phile.
From: Your friend, AKA a member of the Goon squad.
What prey tell, heve you ever done for this country and the Soldiers you say you respect while at the same time condemning us as the goon squad. You are of the same sorry character that called my father a baby killer when he returned home from Vietnam. Respect us or not, we do not care, for your words have proven that you are not worthy of ours. This is my fourth conflict and the third time over here for this one. I am in my fourth month of a fifteen month deployment right now and will be glad to take an extra day or two to fly to Atlanta or your local airport so you can deliver your speil to me and my brothers. My family will understand that I will be gone an extra day or two. They understand sacrifice.

Bravo!! So you are a good soldier, patriotic, dedicated and doing what you are told to do and doing it with great courage and valor. You are to be applauded, revered and saluted by all Americans who have even the slightest understanding of what this country is all about.

You, being the good military man that you are (and there is no sarcasm intended or implied), are following orders which you should not, MUST not question or hesitate in carrying out, as all of our forces are unquestionably doing.

You have absolutely no control over what your orders are and must never question their validity to the extent that it might impair your ability to carry them out to the best of your ability.

The fact that your commander in chief is seen as a bufoon by a majority of the citizens that you are fighting for should never, ever reflect on you who are doing what you are trained to do, regardless of the fact that it is seen by many that that commander in chief is egregiously using our military as a goon squad.

I'm a Viet Nam vet, did what I was told to do when I was active duty, then rejoined civilian life and protested with all my heart and soul the atrocities of the Viet Nam War.

Iraq IS our current Viet Nam debacle. Take heart and do as you are ordered - things will change when the bufoon who is your comander in chief is replaced and your orders to perform duties which incite cries of "goon squad" will be changed.

You are NOT a goon squad! You are only being used as one and that is the biggest tragedy of this war.

You are ALL heroes in a terribly gone wrong endeavour.

"The fact that your commander in chief is seen as a bufoon by a majority of the citizens that you are fighting for should never, ever reflect on you who are doing what you are trained to do, regardless of the fact that it is seen by many that that commander in chief is egregiously using our military as a goon squad." - DARISC

DARISC...plenty of warm fuzzy in there to lead up to the one sentence you wanted to say. But you know what's so great about GWB? HE DOESNT CARE WHAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THINKS OF HIM, AND WON'T CHANGE HIS COURSE OF ACTION TO GAIN RANDOM APPROVAL. That's called integrity. Something the previous administration knew nothing about. And something that many Americans respect and admire in him. You dems just can't handle the fact that he won't conform to your media propoganda the way Clinton, your hero, did.

You can keep trying, but the man has proven that he has more integrity, dignity, and committment than the entire other side of the aisle.

I'm a Democrat? Wrong.
Clinton's my hero? Wrong.
Bush integrity? Strike three.

Stubborn committment doesn't by definition equate to integrity.

You can keep trying, but the man has an approval rating that is what it is and all that disapproval doesn't come from one side of the aisle.

The good news is that he doesn't let his foriegn policy decisions flip-flop based on those approval ratings you mention. If our previous administration had followed such an approach, 9/11 may have never happened and Osama would be vacationing in Guantanamo right now!

I don't believe his approval ratings have flip-flopped; they've pretty much gone straight downhill. Sticking one's hand, in this case our military, into the wrong bee-hive then stubbornly refusing to even consider that that was a mistake (which would not be flip-flopping) and attempting to rectify that mistake at an early stage does not inspire my confidence in and respect for the man.

Do you believe that there was a connection between Osama and Iraq - before the invasion?

Do believe diverting our military away from hunting him down in Afghanistan/Pakistan to invade Iraq was the right decision? Had that decision not been made, Osama might be, as you say, vacationing in Guantanamo right now.

Please don't take my words out of context - I said you are (tragically) being USED as a goon squad by the bozos in Washington. I never said you WERE a bunch of goons or anything like it. Please understand the distinction. If the thought of being perceived as "goons" bothers you, you should be directing your ire at the people in Washington that cooked up this whole Iraq thing, not at your fellow citizens. THEY are the ones using you as pawns, goons, hit men and "dirty work guys" for their own selfish, twisted and personal agendas. Not me.

I would gladly meet you in person - or any of the guys in your unit - and buy them a beer, say "thank you for your service" and listen to your stories. However it won't change my opinion that the misuse and exploitation of the dedication and patriotism of our service personnel is a tragedy and an abomination of this country's principles. I'd like nothing more than to see all our people home, safe and able to DEFEND this country. We were never supposed to be the aggressor nation, but that is unfortunately what we have become.

Unlike some on here, I can differentiate between hating the war and hating the people fighting it. I DO hate this war - I find it pointless, ridiculous, a waste of resources and lives, born out of revenge and lies and deceit on the part of our own supposed "leaders". I have no hatred whatsoever for anyone who feels they're "doing the right thing" by participating as a member of our armed forces. I would disagree with their assessment (and yes, I'll tell them that to their face if asked), but I certainly don't hate them.

The generalizations made here are sad and pretty juvenile. I am neither "liberal" nor "pro-Hillary" or anything like it. I (like you) want what's best for this country. Continuing to throw money and bodies at a problem in Iraq isn't it. Feel free to disagree.

The intent of my post as well.

I concur, and I'd buy you the 2nd beer. THANK YOU for your service to OUR country Lil' Black Car... I sincerely meant that!

Those questions are soooooooo irrelevant now, I can't fathom why you're bringing them up again. Did Clinton ever have sex with that woman??? Just as irrelevant!

The FACT is that we are in a much different situation than anyone could have anticipated without the benefit of a crystal ball....regardless of your questions above. The FACT is that we are not throwing up our hands, saying "oops" and going home like you prescribe. Instead, we're staying and making sure that we take responsibility for our actions (mistake or not) and doing everything in our power to improve things in Iraq based on the realities that exist TODAY!

Get it? Under GWB's leadership and poor approval ratings, he remains committed to TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for our actions as a country to stabilize the region before pulling out. Our country has become so eager to assign blame and then bolt without responsible follow-through (look at our mortgage industry). I'm glad that our commander-in-chief (even if he's not a Clinton-esque speaker) has the balls and integrity to follow-through on his actions.

That's absolutely just not true. I (and many others, including Dick Cheney back in '94)) could see this coming from a mile away. This WAS in fact predictable, but "they" (including Dick) packaged it up and sold it as a "walk in the park" to the populace wrapped up with a pretty "9/11" ribbon. What's worse is "knowing what they did", and Dick absolutely KNEW (I've seen the clips), they still mismanaged this fiasco from the beginning. I do agree on one thing however, what's done is done, and we can't just simply walk away, but we MUST leave eventually (but how?). IMO, as bad as Sadaam was, we have made a bad situation MUCH worse, and as bad as it is now (even with "surge" improvements) it simply will not get significantly better, EVER, as long as we are there...we ARE the problem now :(. 9/11 may have changed "their justification" for going into Iraq, but it had no impact whatsoever on what the situation would be if "anti-Islamic fundamentalist" Sadaam was removed from power. He was the "lesser of two evils" all through the 80s when we backed him (against Iran), and nothing about 9/11 changed that. I don't have an answer...imo, there may not really be one. IMO as bad as 9/11 was, what has happened since is much worse, with no end in sight. I'm a republican btw, so save the liberal/Clinton bashing for someone else.

Oh please. Bush cares about taking responsibility? That's rich.

The same way he "takes responsibility" for ignoring the PDB titled "Al Qaeda Determined to Launch Attack Inside United States"?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the Valerie Plame affair (remember him saying "anyone inside my administration involved with this incident will be fired"?)

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the U.S. District Attorney firings?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the content of the Joint Energy Task Force meetings (oh wait, that's "executive privilege" right?)

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the blatant screw-ups (at best) or fabrications (at worst) of the intelligence agencies under his command building the case for invading Iraq?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for Katrina and Rita and "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job. . ."?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the BILLIONS in no-bid contracts awarded to Haliburton and other politically-connected corporations?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the use of mercenaries like Blackwater in Iraq with their "shoot first, ask questions later" policies?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for the suspension of habeus corpus, creation of secret prisons in foreign countries, detainment and torture of suspects without trial, due process or evidence review?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for cutting the pay and extending the tours of the soldiers in Iraq?

The same way he "takes responsibility" for suppressing the EPA reports dealing with global climate change and simultaneously authorizing the agency to now sell PCB-contaminated lands to the public and suppressing reports about asbestos contamination in potentially millions of residences?



Like that? Is that the kind of "taking responsibility" you mean?

POP, reading the left wing blogs without at least a little balance in your spin information is not making you look very intelligent.

It's amazing how arrogant the left wing machine is at spinning these stories, I'm dumbfounded to think people would actually buy into it, but from reading the POP himself I can see no other explanation.

Will you be voting against George Bush in the "2008" election again?

Which items do you dispute as "spin" then?

Guys, guys, calm down. These bleeding heart libs have the right to say anything they want, let them do it.
They have that right because brave soldiers fought for them and died for them so they wouldn't have to lift a finger except to bad-mouth those who protect them and sacrifice for them.

There have been a hundred times more terrorist attacks and human bombs and suicide attacks in Iraq than the rest of the world combined. I guess these people weren't terrorists before, they just decided to become murdering animalistic savages recently? BS.

Start with your first. Having a name and organization that is possibly plotting action on US soil does not give enough information to stop it. You don't know he ignored it either.

We did know Bin Laden was a threat long before 2000 and when we had our chance to take him out good Ole boy Bill chose not to finish the job. The President inherited Bin Laden from the Clintons.

I guess Bill had other pressing matters with his staff in the oval office.


"Moral Relativism is the great farce."

Can't disagree with you on that one as the situation exists "now", but that simply did not exist under Sadaam's rule (the Islamic aspect). We've built a fantastic "terrorist incubator", and will pay the price for decades imo. Some give us southerners grief for "still fighting the civil war" 150 years later...how long will Iraqi's hold a grudge against us? What is being labeled "terrorist" now, is for the most part "attacks against an occupying army" or the same old tribal bs that's been around for centuries (kept in check under Sadaam's "reign"). If foreign soldiers were occupying my country, I (and most of my friends) would be "terrorists" too (from their perspective). No solution in sight...

Ladies.....it's been 6+ years since 9/11. There have been NO terrorist attacks on US soil since. Why is that? Israel recently, and successfully knocked out a Syrian nuc site. Why is that? Libya has thrown in the towel (no pun intended) and Quaddhafi is now our pal. Why is that?

Yep....it's all a big failure and we're the evil catalyst behind all that's bad in the world. Man, I get sick of that ***** from people that enjoy every aspect of freedom, and give back nothing.

I'm glad we both agree that Bill Clinton's presidency was so successful. Hey, there were no terrorist attacks following the WTC bombing so by your standard, it was a smashing success, right?

Get real. Is that really your standard of quality executive performance? "Oh, 3,000+ people didn't get killed this week (not counting Iraq), so I guess this guy's the shiznit. . . "

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid they keep proffering the public. Such blind loyalty is sure to be rewarded.

Interesting how anyone disagreeing with what our government has done or is currently doing, in particular our current Bush league foreign policy, is labeled a "Liberal" (apparently the analysis deprived right winger's worst nightmare - why is that?) as if it is "unpatriotic" to fall out of lock-step with those who blindly follow a misbegotten, stubborn and inept commander in chief - fear and loathing vs productive discussion usually ends up in a hail of condemnation and sloganistic responses from the defenders....like on this thread, for example.

Hey! That's the American way and I defended it on my two tours in Viet Nam. I'm curious how many of the more rancorous here (get out that dictionary Mule and look up "Frued" while you're at it since you like using the name) posters here have an even an inkling of what warfare is about first hand. President Bush DOES and he is a hero. President Bush Junior DOES NOT and he is what he is and that is very unfortunate for our country in my considered opinion.