Garage Problems:-(
 

This is not starting off to be a good week:mad:
The garage I'm having built at the house has been one @#* after another :mad::mad:

As many of you may remember, I'm building a 30X40 toy room in the back yard, but they only poured a 24'X30' slab, says he can't go wider unless a tree was taken out (he said that he would do that) and will extend the length. Well, he started putting up walls today and tells me that he needs more money, I ask him to show me the receipts and where the $20K I have already paid him has gone and until I see where it went, I'm not going to give him any more money. Well, he said if he didn't get any more cash today, he was finished with it. I have faxes the contract to my attorney. Here is a crappy cell phone picture, as I'm working off my laptop while my desk top is down. Sure doesn't look like over $20K of work to me.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1194899403.jpg

I've long said that I don't think most contractors track their expenses well. When they realize they are short and/or their suppliers/subs are demanding payment for long-finished jobs, they simply tell whoever they currently have a contract with that they need more money.

That said, things with this guy will probably never be good now. If you do allow him to finish the job, he will cut corners to try to improve his financial picture. Be careful, I've known contractors to sabotage whoever tries to finish the work or try to sneak back onto the jobsite and steal materials because they feel they have been wronged. (Even though the whole problem is most likely his own fault.) I've even heard stories about contractors damaging other property as revenge.

So the guy took it upon himself to pour a smaller foundation than asked for because of a tree?

Sue his a$$ Byron!!!

Have your lawyer give him written notice that his contract is terminated and demand the money back. The courts do not look favourably on these characters. Sue him for removal of all the crap work he's done too. Make the bill large, and rightfully so.

A 24x30 Slab is 720 sqft and even at $10/sqft that's only worth $7200; but then its deficient.

Once you're satisfied that the contract is terminated properly, find yourself a good contractor that is licensed, insured and bonded.

Sorry for your challenges, that is a pure pi$$ off!

$20k up front?

What was the total?

Milestone payments only.

It's things like this that make me wonder why I didnt go into construction arbitration rather than engineering...

sorry to see it Byron, brings it home now.

+1

If the economy tanks, I'm going back to school for a law degree and specializing in construction contract law. One of my Professional Practice professors in grad. school had done this (degree in architecture plus law degree) and probably had more money than God. I think he just taught part-time to keep from getting bored.

A tree probably would not constitute a "concealed condition". What owner/contractor agreement did you use? Did you use AIA form A201?

If you used standard AIA bid forms the contractor normally certifies that he/she has visited the site and is familiar with conditions. Sounds like a sleazeball. And you're barely out of the ground. This sounds like it's only going to get worse. Sorry to hear it.

looks like your guy smoked the first draw

doing a similar project myself, 24x32
24"x24" footing
5 courses of block
2 9' overhead doors
1 36" side door
4"reinforced slab

10,000 (just for the mason)

total is gonna come to 27,687

+1


I have dealt with 2 contractors (different projects) that burned through money and begged for early draws. You will be better off with a new contractor. Unfortunately the money you invested is gone. (btw, secure all of the materials purchased for you project before they walk.) Hopefully you can find a stand up contractor to do the job.

I would bury the first contractor. I would make it my purpose in life to ruin his.

The money lost is one thing, but the betrayal of trust is another. He purposely screwed you over.

/rant off

finding a stand up contractor in florida is not easy. They think the roads are paved with gold. Good luck byron -

Either way, you still have to have a good contract to start with in order to protect yourself. I'm not saying Byron did this poorly (he mentioned having an attorney on board, which leads me to believe he did at least some things wisely), but in general, residential owners are notoriously cheap and tend to skimp when it comes time to having contracts drafted up. Instead of using standard forms, such as the AIA ones (which cost money) or having a lawyer draft them up (which costs even more money) a lot of owners decide to "play lawyer" to save a few bucks and in doing so, leave loopholes big enough for even a dumb contractor (with enough experience, who knows how to play the game) to drive a truck through. Word to the wise - construction contracts are NOT a place to save money on a job. In general, every dollar spent up front on having good contract documents drawn up will save you ten down the road in potential problems. No joke and it's not just self-serving architect propaganda here.

Anyway, that said, even if Byron succeeds in getting resolution on this, it'll be a long time before he sees any money and it wouldn't surprise me if the contractor files bankruptcy and is in business two weeks later under a different name doing the same thing to someone else. Happens all the time.

FL has an especially bad reputation for sleazy contracting. Lots of "fly-by-nighters" down there.

Keep us posted - hope this works out okay.

eeh, how can you give 20 K to a contractor up front, unless it came with a clear contract that tells him what he has to deliver for that 20 K?

sorry , but i'm confused about that

for something as simple as a concrete slab ,
i would want a fixed price , pay 1/3rd up front, 1/3rd when they start, 1/3rd upon completion
any screwups or cost over-run, he can eat it

This is also pretty standard practice. I was wondering about that one myself.

If it were me, I'd have also built retainments into the payment schedule, but I just don't trust people. :)

This has all the markings of a disaster. It will get worse before it gets better. As expensive as it would be, it would still be cheaper to *****can this contractor and get someone decent. One that plans to start the project on his dime, and you pay for services AFTER they are performed. It is a red flag when contractors ask for money up front. And another red flag when they pour a foundation in the wrong dimensions. And when they ask for more money before they've spent the first 'draw.'

Good construction contractors are expensive. But not as expensive as bad construction contractors.

Byron, did the builder specify a "cost plus" contract?

Retainage is always a good idea. Contractors respect one thing at least. The money. The one who holds the money has the power. 5% of each progress payment should be retained. At least. Those monies are finally distributed when the project is 'closed out.' Assuming there are no creditors. You see, the owner (that's you, Byron) is usually left holding the bag if material suppliers or subcontractors were not paid. The prime contractor's debts to them can become a lien on your property. So......the damage is not just limited to the money you pay to the prime.

Was not aware of that. Good to know. Thx

True dat.

I have learned over the years the best price up front may not be the best at the end

It almost always isn't.

Another thing to consider is with residential construction entering a slowdown period, there will be increasing competition on the part of bidders and prospective GCs. You (as the owner) can most certainly take advantage of this. Either solicit more bids (more competition tends to drive down prices and get you lower bid amounts as a general rule.

You can also insist on things like "guaranteed maximum price" contracts, which GCs would have laughed at a couple of years ago.

Are Performance Bonds required for this type of work in FL? I'm not familiar with the nuances of their laws. If there's a Surity Bond involved here (probably not), Byron will be fine. If not, lesson learned I guess. Another thing that's always a good idea.

Suing a contractor in FL is a farce. You'll sue his LLC, which he will then bankrupt, and then you will see him the next week operating under a new LLC.

Hey man, a yard of concrete will cover 81 sq feet at 4" thick. WTF? Man you could of poured three slabs for 20K..... You need to get an honest person on your sight and not pay this guy another penny..... +1 on the legal advice listed previously.... if you add onto this slab make sure it is tied in correctly. Man I am sorry to hear this problem wish I lived closer to assist....

The wrong size slab because of the tree should not be an issue. If this contractor is stand up, he would have applied for a building permit and they require site plans, site plans relating to existing conditions. Also, with a permit, an inspector from the town/county should have inspected the foundation before he placed it, this would have come up then too.

Shady contractors are all to common these days. Good luck with resolution.

Looks like the slab is on a slope. I see 10K worth of work completed (or so). But the 20 x 30 vs. 20 x 40 thing sounds like a gross mistake on his part. Better go back and check the plans and see who's right.

I remember reading about a contractor that built a house 180 degrees from the intended orientation. I guess they salvaged the foundation and reworked the floor plan to achieve the desired layout. All of this was at the contractor' expense, of course.

I like how all you out of state guys are experts on Florida contractors. I'm a contractor and I'm in Florida. Seems like you paid him like you do your strippers, Byron....first the money, then the dance.

Sorry if any contractors are on this thread, but are they all idiots!
I have "never" heard of a project that came in on time, came in on budget, was done properly, etc, etc, etc....
They can't add, they can't estimate cost, and they are unreliable!!
They don't return calls, all they care about is money and think their S^&t doesn't stink. Well it does. It stinks bad.

If any of us "professionals" did that in our chosen professions we would be fired and out of work!

My experience is that they keep asking for more money until you cannot stand it any more, and then they go ahead and finish the project.

The ONLY time a contractor does a good job, is for a friend, because their wives would have a field day if they screwed their only friend!! ;-)

Seems like a contractor must have run off with your wife and your Porsche. I hate to generalize (as you do) but half of the problems that owners have with contractors, they bring on themselves. They over pay them, they don't have a signed agreement/contract, they don't have a schedule of values, they don't get referances, they don't ask for lien releases, they don't ask for a written schedule, the scope of work is not clear, the owner's wife is left to deal with the contrator, etc, etc, etc....

Buyer beware, you idiot!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1195065710.gif

Wow, I don't think any of the contractors on this board would be offended by that statement.

There are good contractors and bad contractors, just as with any profession.

Since you (generally) don't know which kind you're going to get, it's important to do things "by the book" and have tight contract documents ahead of time.

Please tell me this wasn't one of those cases where "oh, I've got a friend who knows this guy whose brother's friend is a residential contractor - he'll get you a good deal" sorts of things. I recently turned down a job here in Long Beach for a guy wanting to build two 2BR apartment units and based his budget (and he wanted to base my fees on) his "friend who happened to be a G.C. who says he can do it for 60 bucks a square foot". I said "thanks but no thanks". BIG red flag. You'd be lucky to build that kind of stuff for $160 a square foot in this town. Not a chance at $60. That guy was either being flat-out lied to, or being set up to be bled dry on change orders. Either way, I wanted no part of it.

Anytime an owner/prospective client talks about his "friend" who is a contractor and hasn't personally known the guy for the last 20 years and/or goes out for beers with them regularly is full of it. They're always your "friend" until you get 'em on board. I've seen this too many times.

Word to the wise - keep it professional and use all the mechanisms you can to protect yourself - architectural services, good contract documents, a good lawyer, retainment, bonds, etc. Whenever someone claims to "have a friend who's a contractor", run.

Use commercial contractors - sure you'll pay more (maybe) but you will be happy in the end. Low-dollar residential contractors tend to give all the others a bad name.

In the commercial business - every job has to be done on time, on budget and at the highest quality level. When you don't do it right , you get to do it again. And for this great service we get to wait 60-120 days for our money.

Lots of commercial companies do not do residential, but not all of them. Ask nice and they will take care of you.

Same deal here in Sweden. There are good contractors, but for some reason many people have had bad experiences. Not least that it seems very difficult to finish the work in scheduled time - not to mention starting it. The budget is often too conservative.

Many times the actual people working on site do not seem qualified. You make plans with a contractor that apparently knows what he is talking about and then he sends out some under payed immigrants that neither know the job nor speak the language. Frustrating.

There are good customers and there are bad ones. Mostly, I seem to find that anyone under 40 is a POS to work for. Seems like, "They don't return calls, all they care about is money and think their S^&t doesn't stink. Well it does. It stinks bad."

I know this doesn't help Byron, but I hope anyone who makes a generalized statement about all contractors being a bad act NEVER gets anything right from the contractors so as to not spoil the record. IOW, go pound sand.

Wicked, if you ever come out to an event when I'm around, do me a big favor and do NOT talk to me. Just stay the f**k away.

I mean it.