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Seric 11-15-2007 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590123)
But Arab terrorist does = muslim. Do you have a point?

My point was that Muslim Terroirsts are a very small percentage of the people who practice the religion. It's just sad that such a small percentage of bad apples ruins the whole tree. I guess that happens in all walks of life.

livi 11-15-2007 12:08 PM

All which bring us to the inevitable and obvious question:

Wherein lies the common denominator for non acceptable behavior worth getting off of our behinds to protect our children from ? (or something like that)

If a Taliban shoots a young kid for teaching English - should all Talibans be judged as enemies ?

If a Christian .....?

If a etc etc

Now if a non descript, bald headed youngster in a fag costume hits a liqour store and tops off the clerk - should all.....?

The answer is of course no. But why ?

The simplest, most naive questions often carry the most simple answer. The most simple answer is more often correct than not.

Rikao4 11-15-2007 12:13 PM

Christians complain in a Muslim country = most likely dead Christians or at minimum told to leave.


Rika

The Gaijin 11-15-2007 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seric (Post 3590254)
My point was that Muslim Terroirsts are a very small percentage of the people who practice the religion. It's just sad that such a small percentage of bad apples ruins the whole tree. I guess that happens in all walks of life.

The greater question in the USA, Western Europe and other countries where commmunities live side by side with Muslims - is not the percentage of actual terrorists - it is how much support for those who would advance that particular religion (and attendant lifestyle) by violence are to be found in these communities? After 9/11 people started to do a whole lot of reading of history and what has and is going on in the world and don't like everything they see.

The good news for us in the USA - is that we are in fact "the great satan" for good reason. It is not as most suppose that we offer the most decedent lifestyle. It is that we are the greatest corruptors of traditional ways.

We offer much more opportunity to assimilate, to get ahead economically and not be broken (and kept down) by the nanny state. The old ways and the old mores are swept away as much as any other immigrant group.. And those with jobs and a future are not drawn to all that nonsense.

Seric 11-15-2007 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gaijin (Post 3590328)
The greater question in the USA, Western Europe and other countries where commmunities live side by side with Muslims - is not the percentage of actual terrorists - it is how much support for those who would advance that particular religion (and attendant lifestyle) by violence are to be found in these communities? After 9/11 people started to do a whole lot of reading of history and what has and is going on in the world and don't like everything they see.

Good point.

Like when the U.S. rounded up Japanese Americans and put them in interment camps during WWII. Who knows how many of them were spies or sympathetic to the Imperials and what kind of chaos they could start.

Rikao4 11-15-2007 12:36 PM

So who is the 'Borg'
Must we assimilate into the Muslim world ,
Rika

The Gaijin 11-15-2007 12:39 PM

Not exactly. Nobody is rounding up anybody.

I know many families (both Canadian and American) who were rounded up and shipped out. My mother's family was kicked out of East London too - but that was because of the bombing. But those are whole other OT threads...

I also think the LAPD plan is stupid and should go away.

legion 11-15-2007 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seric (Post 3590342)
Good point.

Like when the U.S. rounded up Japanese Americans and put them in interment camps during WWII. Who knows how many of them were spies or sympathetic to the Imperials and what kind of chaos they could start.

I've often wondered how many Japanese-American lives were spared by being rounded up. I mean, the general hatred of the Japanese at that time was pretty strong. Surely some would have been murdered/lynched etc. during the war...

Superman 11-15-2007 12:48 PM

Brilliant spin, Chris.

legion 11-15-2007 12:51 PM

I'm not one to defend or admire FDR. He's the one that invented modern social programs and deficit spending. LBJ perfected them.

It's amazing how the "shades of gray" and "look at all sides of an issue" people are incredibily closed-minded when it comes an issue they have long staked out a position on. ;)

The Gaijin 11-15-2007 12:57 PM

I think their neighbors knew them and repsected them as hardworking immigrants and their American children. There were no problems in Hawaii, where Japanese-Americans were not interned. The decision making process and how quickly and easily it all happened is frightful.

Mule 11-15-2007 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seric (Post 3590254)
My point was that Muslim Terroirsts are a very small percentage of the people who practice the religion. It's just sad that such a small percentage of bad apples ruins the whole tree. I guess that happens in all walks of life.

You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

Seric 11-15-2007 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590423)
You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

I was not totally aware of this, pardon my ignorance.

Superman 11-15-2007 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590423)
You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

Educate Seric and myself. Who published this report that concludes the majority of American Muslims are terrorists? Thank you, in advance.

stomachmonkey 11-15-2007 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590423)
You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

Those Nazis were a small percentage of Germans.

onewhippedpuppy 11-15-2007 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gaijin (Post 3590328)
The greater question in the USA, Western Europe and other countries where commmunities live side by side with Muslims - is not the percentage of actual terrorists - it is how much support for those who would advance that particular religion (and attendant lifestyle) by violence are to be found in these communities? After 9/11 people started to do a whole lot of reading of history and what has and is going on in the world and don't like everything they see.

The good news for us in the USA - is that we are in fact "the great satan" for good reason. It is not as most suppose that we offer the most decedent lifestyle. It is that we are the greatest corruptors of traditional ways.

We offer much more opportunity to assimilate, to get ahead economically and not be broken (and kept down) by the nanny state. The old ways and the old mores are swept away as much as any other immigrant group.. And those with jobs and a future are not drawn to all that nonsense.

To an extent, but the true fundamentalists still keep their beliefs while blending into their society of choice. The recent UK airport bombing was composed of mostly respected professionals. If my memory serves me correctly, there were several doctors and an aerospace engineer. Amazing that such intelligent individuals fall victim to being brainwashed.

sammyg2 11-15-2007 01:26 PM

There was a recnt poll taken inside the United states, and all persons polled were Muslim. One of the questions was, under certain circumstances do you feel that suicide bombings are justified?

Over 25% of all muslims polled answered yes.
Over 40% of all muslim males under the age of 25 years said yes, under certain circumstances suicide bombings are justified.

I can't remember the organization that conducted the poll, money magazine or something like that. It should be easily researched. I didn't take the poll, I didn't make it up, I just read it.

sammyg2 11-15-2007 01:32 PM

Quote:

The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified, compared with 69 percent who believed such attacks can never be accepted.


Support in some degree for suicide bombings among younger European Muslims ranged from 22 percent in Germany to 29 percent in Spain, 35 percent in Britain and 42 percent in France, according to a May 2006 Pew poll.
Maybe this is where I got the 25% and 40%.

stomachmonkey 11-15-2007 01:33 PM

I believe this is the data that is being referred to although he numbers do not match what has been presented here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2244293620070522

sammyg2 11-15-2007 01:35 PM

Here's another interesting one, but from the UK:

British Muslim Poll
Very interesting poll of Muslim's in Britain.
Via Sky News

Radical clerics who preach violence are not out of touch with mainstream Muslim views, according to nearly half of British Muslims questioned in a poll.

The opinion poll for Sky News revealed that roughly the same number thought of themselves as Muslims first and British second.


Almost all - 91% - were against the bombings of July 7, but 2% agreed with what the suicide bombers did. (2% of some 3 million Moslims in Britain, that's a pretty large number)


Around 88% thought there was no justification in the Koran for the bombings, but 5% thought there was.

The interviewees were asked to respond to the statement: "Muslim clerics who preach violence against the West are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinon."

Nearly half - 46% - disagreed or strongly disagreed, while 54% thought they were out of touch.

And 46% said they thought of themselves as Muslim first and British second, with another 42% not differentiating.

Only 12% saw themselves as British first and Muslim second

onewhippedpuppy 11-15-2007 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 3590487)
Pollsters said they were surprised to find that only 40 percent of U.S. Muslims believed Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington.

:rolleyes:Do they think we staged the moon landing too?

stomachmonkey 11-15-2007 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 3590499)
:rolleyes:Do they think we staged the moon landing too?

No, they think someone other than Arabs were involved which could be Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians, Chinese, Australians or even the dreaded Canadians.

onewhippedpuppy 11-15-2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 3590505)
No, they think someone other than Arabs were involved which could be Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians, Chinese, Australians or even the dreaded Canadians.

Canadians! Those sly ba$tards! I have the solution for them......

http://www.lovefilm.com/lovefilm/ima...0559-large.jpg

sammyg2 11-15-2007 01:46 PM

Ironic that they think someone else was responsible for 9/11 besides those muslims who admitted to planning it and took credit for it.

Some of my black friends insist that OJ was innocent too.

Mule 11-15-2007 02:28 PM

Here tis. Read 'em & weep ladies & germs. As you are reading this give some thought to how many weren't willing to express their true feelings.

http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=48

Mule 11-15-2007 02:31 PM

One of my personal favorites:

13. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American freedoms?
YES 17 (6%)
NO 269 (88%)
DID NOT ANSWER 21 (6%)

Shaun @ Tru6 11-15-2007 02:45 PM

I'm confused.

Why aren't we rounding up Muslims here in the U.S. and executing them?

Rearden 11-15-2007 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3590640)
I'm confused.

Why aren't we rounding up Muslims here in the U.S. and executing them?

Are you sure we aren't? I read all about that on Democratic Underground.

Mule 11-15-2007 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3590640)
I'm confused.

WE AGREE!SmileWavy

Shaun @ Tru6 11-15-2007 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rearden (Post 3590646)
Are you sure we aren't? I read all about that on Democratic Underground.

What is Democratic Underground? And what can an Average American do to help erase the Muslim population from the U.S.?

Mule 11-15-2007 02:58 PM

Elect folks who are serious about securing the borders and stopping emigration from muslim run or influenced countries, for 1.

2. Monitor mosques.

3. Profile profile profile,

DanL911sc 11-15-2007 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590606)
One of my personal favorites:

13. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American freedoms?
YES 17 (6%)
NO 269 (88%)
DID NOT ANSWER 21 (6%)

You forgot the more interesting:

Quote:

14. Is Al Qaeda attacking America because Al Qaeda hates American involvement in the Muslim world?
YES 228 (74%)
NO 54 (18%)
DID NOT ANSWER 25 (8%)

So the group most in tune with and most sympathetic with the terrorists is telling us why Al Qaeda targets us. Will we listen?

DanL911sc 11-15-2007 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rearden (Post 3590141)
What are the Bible verses they quote to justify this Christian terrorism? I do read the news quite a lot, but don't recall many stories about Christian terrorists who commit their terrorism in the name of Christianity.

An example from here:

Quote:

Poso, Jakarta (2000)

On July 26, 2007, 17 Christians were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law. A Christian mob attacked, murdered, and beheaded two Muslim fishermen in September 2006, reportedly as retaliation for a previous court ordered and legally sanctioned execution in 2006 of three Christians convicted of leading a militant group which killed hundreds of Muslims in Poso in 2000.[14] In addition to the seventeen Christian defendants found guilty of "acts of terrorism by the use of violence", two defendants received fourteen year sentences for their main roles in the killings, while ten were sentenced to twelve year terms. Five other defendants in separate hearings received eight year sentences for their part in the disposal of the bodies.
It seems to be less a question of religion than a question of culture.

But suicide bombers are almost exclusively Muslim. One reason might be polygamy! From here (an interesting article about non PC ideas):

Quote:

# Most suicide bombers are Muslim

According to the Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, a comprehensive history of this troubling yet topical phenomenon, while suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, when religion is involved, it is always Muslim. Why is this? Why is Islam the only religion that motivates its followers to commit suicide missions?

The surprising answer from the evolutionary psychological perspective is that Muslim suicide bombing may have nothing to do with Islam or the Koran (except for two lines in it). It may have nothing to do with the religion, politics, the culture, the race, the ethnicity, the language, or the region. As with everything else from this perspective, it may have a lot to do with sex, or, in this case, the absence of sex.

What distinguishes Islam from other major religions is that it tolerates polygyny. By allowing some men to monopolize all women and altogether excluding many men from reproductive opportunities, polygyny creates shortages of available women. If 50 percent of men have two wives each, then the other 50 percent don't get any wives at all.

So polygyny increases competitive pressure on men, especially young men of low status. It therefore increases the likelihood that young men resort to violent means to gain access to mates. By doing so, they have little to lose and much to gain compared with men who already have wives. Across all societies, polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape, even after controlling for such obvious factors as economic development, economic inequality, population density, the level of democracy, and political factors in the region.

However, polygyny itself is not a sufficient cause of suicide bombing. Societies in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean are much more polygynous than the Muslim nations in the Middle East and North Africa. And they do have very high levels of violence. Sub-Saharan Africa suffers from a long history of continuous civil wars—but not suicide bombings.

The other key ingredient is the promise of 72 virgins waiting in heaven for any martyr in Islam. The prospect of exclusive access to virgins may not be so appealing to anyone who has even one mate on earth, which strict monogamy virtually guarantees. However, the prospect is quite appealing to anyone who faces the bleak reality on earth of being a complete reproductive loser.

It is the combination of polygyny and the promise of a large harem of virgins in heaven that motivates many young Muslim men to commit suicide bombings. Consistent with this explanation, all studies of suicide bombers indicate that they are significantly younger than not only the Muslim population in general but other (nonsuicidal) members of their own extreme political organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And nearly all suicide bombers are single.

Mule 11-15-2007 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanL911sc (Post 3590685)
You forgot the more interesting:




So the group most in tune with and most sympathetic with the terrorists is telling us why Al Qaeda targets us. Will we listen?

Your logic knocked me out of my chair I see the light now. We should believe that they are telling us the truth and accept the punishment for the error of our ways. Thanks for clearing me up.

stomachmonkey 11-15-2007 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590714)
Your logic knocked me out of my chair I see the light now. We should believe that they are telling us the truth and accept the punishment for the error of our ways. Thanks for clearing me up.

So you are saying that they lie?

So then everything in the poll is BS?

Even the stuff that supports your position?

DanL911sc 11-15-2007 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3590714)
Your logic knocked me out of my chair I see the light now. We should believe that they are telling us the truth and accept the punishment for the error of our ways. Thanks for clearing me up.

Wow... paranoid much?

Mule 11-15-2007 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanL911sc (Post 3590720)
Wow... paranoid much?

Actually Dan, it's called informed.

Mule 11-15-2007 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 3590718)
So you are saying that they lie?

So then everything in the poll is BS?

Even the stuff that supports your position?

Try another approach, show me a group they get along with?

Shaun @ Tru6 11-15-2007 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 3590718)
So you are saying that they lie?

So then everything in the poll is BS?

Even the stuff that supports your position?


let's not inject logic into this argument now!

Mule 11-15-2007 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3590736)
let's not inject logic into this argument now!

Maybe you can show me somebody who they get along with.


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