Counseling, advice, and personal experience.

scottmandue · 12-01-2007, 07:55 AM

On Kurt's thread asking for advice on parenting the question was raised as to if people who have not raised children qualify to give advice on such a subject.

What think ye wise men and women of the PPOT round table?

Moneyguy1 · 12-01-2007, 08:13 AM

Sometimes I think that people get two concepts confused:

counselling and consoling.

Just my take. Any "advice" I might offer is based on my own experiences and as such, limited. Although I raised two girls with vastly different personalities, it does not make me an "expert" in parenting, although it may give me a certain degree of "insight". I will share my experiences, but other than that, I will offer no solution because I simply do not know. Those who think they can solve every problem scare the heck out of me.

The older I get, the less certain I am of just about everything.

Oh Haha · 12-01-2007, 08:14 AM

Great question, Scott.

I think that childless persons should NOT give advice on raising children.
That being said, I think that maybe a personal experience they had might be helpful.

Rot 911 · 12-01-2007, 08:29 AM

Well I too will weigh in here. I think both people with kids and ones with out kids can offer good advice. After all we were all kids once and perhaps can draw on the experiences that worked with them. For me I appreciate everyone's advice. I may not use it all, but it is nice to see it all laid out there for me.

scottmandue · 12-01-2007, 08:31 AM

I think this is an good question to debate but I didn't want to derail Kurt's important post with a discussion about the pros and cons of who should and shouldn't give advice.

I also didn't want this to digress into religious debate so I left out the non married person giving marital advice however that that would be a similar situation.

On a more interesting and personal side note, do you think a non addictive person can or should give counseling/advice to a person with an addictive personality?

Moneyguy1 · 12-01-2007, 08:39 AM

Scott:

That is an interesting question. My first wife (also deceased) was not only bipolar but was addicted to prescription meds and alcohol. (to her credit she went through rehab and the last 20 years of her life were clean and sober). At the time, I was not even aware of what was going on with the meds and booze. I went to Al-Anon for three years and learned that there is no way the non-addictve partner can ever fully understand what is going on within the addict's head. The primary goal of the "enabler" is to understand him or her self and to get out of the cycle. No one gave advice, they shared their stories and related how they coped. What I learned about addiction was I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I certainly can't cure it (the three c's)

The above was my experiences. Yours or others may vary.

tabs · 12-01-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

The older I get, the less certain I am of just about everything.

That is an accurate description of yourself. You have not spent the time nor effort putting the pieces together. You have not asked the question of yourself why do I do the things I do nor why I feel the way I do about things? You do have the patience that maturity has brought you and the openness to listen to things that you don't understand.

When I was 20 years old I came to this same conclusion, and since I did not want to be a dunce I decided I wanted to learn what made people tick, why people did the things that they did, what mechanisms were at play. So for 35 years I have literally toiled away on the road to Damascus. Now I have the confidence to say I am the master of my craft.

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

Bench parenting is like bench racing.

Would you rather take advice form an average racer, or someone who's never driven, yet knows exactly how they'd win the race?

Heck, even if you get advice from a phenomminally crappy racer you know what not to do.

Moneyguy1 · 12-01-2007, 09:09 AM

tabs...

Thank you for the analysis. It is truly appreciated. I always welcome other people's insights into my psyche. My life has been a mess at times, losing two wives and having to deal with fate. What was, for years, a well adjusted individual has of late fallen into a form of acceptance that there are no answers, only questions. I truly wish I were as confident of things as some. Perhaps death will bring me peace.

DARISC · 12-01-2007, 09:16 AM

Well, I have no children, but having been a child myself, have had 16 years of personal experience being raised, so I believe that qualifies me to some extent.

scottmandue · 12-01-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

Scott:

I went to Al-Anon for three years and learned that there is no way the non-addictive partner can ever fully understand what is going on within the addict's head. The primary goal of the "enabler" is to understand him or her self and to get out of the cycle. No one gave advice, they shared their stories and related how they coped. What I learned about addiction was I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I certainly can't cure it (the three c's)

Went to my first Al-Anon meeting last week... wasn't really sure WTF was going on but it was very interesting.

Bob, is Al-Anon only for friends and family of addicted people or are addicts invited also?

Still not sure where I am at with all this... from my mid twenties to forty I dabbled with drugs and alcohol... at forty I decided that drug culture was for kids and walked away from it... but of course alcohol is alway available and accepted in our culture so I continued to use it. I went to AA meetings and heard things like "if there is any alcohol in the house I will find it and drink it" and "once I start drinking I don't stop until I pass out" and for me I can have a bottle of whiskey in the house for a year without touching it or when I do drink I have three or four or whatever until I have a nice buzz then stop.

But if I get around anyone who is in the program they act as if you drink at all you have a problem. I know I am and have been a self medicator (sp) but I don't know if that automatically equals being an addict.

tabs · 12-01-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt V

After all we were all kids once

BINGO...From the vantage point of being an adult you can see that the child has not fully developed their cognative abilities yet. Part of this is age related and part is experience related. The role of the parent is one to be the childs guide so that they develope the skills, and two to protect/provide for the child while they develope those skills.

Children are just little people who have the same sensibilities eg feelings, common sense etc as adults. Adults are just older children.

One of the most important things a parent can do is teach their children about self awareness. You start by asking them WHY. Why do you feel that way, why do like or dislike that, why did you do that? At first your gona get. "I dunno." But that at least gets them to thinking. It comes down to do you want to be master of your own destiny or do you want to be at buffeted about by the events of life?

Moneyguy1 · 12-01-2007, 09:26 AM

Al-Anon is open to anyone. So is AA. I went to many AA meetings with my first wife. It gave me an appreciation for the struggle that alcoholcs go through.

Moses · 12-01-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

The older I get, the less certain I am of just about everything.

Amen, brother.

scottmandue · 12-01-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

Children are just little people who have the same sensibilities eg feelings, common sense etc as adults. Adults are just older children.

Indeed

Moneyguy1 · 12-01-2007, 09:35 AM

The older I get, the less certain I am of just about everything.

Interesting how two responses can come up with totally different interpretations. Thank you, Moses for your input.

tabs · 12-01-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

tabs...

Thank you for the analysis. It is truly appreciated. I always welcome other people's insights into my psyche. My life has been a mess at times, losing two wives and having to deal with fate. What was, for years, a well adjusted individual has of late fallen into a form of acceptance that there are no answers, only questions. I truly wish I were as confident of things as some. Perhaps death will bring me peace.

So your questioning the existence of God.

scottmandue · 12-01-2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

The older I get, the less certain I am of just about everything.

A theologian I know once said "I wish you had asked me that twenty years ago when I knew everything"

Moneyguy1 · 12-01-2007, 09:40 AM

tabs....

I cannot compete with your superior intellect. Perhaps it is time for me to leave the Bulletin Board since I am such an inferior individual. Do I doubt God? No. Your interpretation of my comment is dsingenuous at best. I believe most firmly in something far better than this world.

Please continue your posturing as an infallible individual. I am sure the others here will appreciate your insight as much as I have.

Sometimes you remind me of snow....

scottmandue · 12-01-2007, 09:54 AM

Many or most Christians question their faith at times, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgon, Martin Luther, Mother Teresa, to name a few...

Bob and I would be somewhat farther down the list.

has nothing to do with out belief in God.