Twas the month before Christmas

[Racerbvd]

Twas the month before Christmas
When all through our land,
Not a Christian was praying
Nor taking a stand.


Why the Politically Correct Police had taken away,
The reason for Christmas - no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing,
About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.


It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say
December 25th is just a "Holiday."
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit
Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!

CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod,

Something was changing, something quite odd!
Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa
In hopes to sell books by Franken and Fonda.


But as Targets were hanging their trees upside down
At Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears
You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.


Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty
Are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen
On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton!


At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter
To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.
And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith
Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded.


The reason for the season, stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break" under your "Dream Tree"
Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.
Choose your words carefully, choose what you say

Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS, not Happy Holiday,

Our Countries were founded under the Christian way

To our "guests" I can say,

If You don't like it, You don't have to stay!!

[1fastredsc]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa
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The day has come when an ultra conservative self proclaimed republican actually resists the effects of capitalism. I thought i'd never see the day.........

[blk911]

Amen, Bryron!

Merry Christmas to you and all. If you are offended, ask yourself why?

Mike

[cool_chick]

Originally Posted by blk911

Amen, Bryron!

Merry Christmas to you and all. If you are offended, ask yourself why?

Mike

Who knows why ya'll are so offended so as to drone on and on with endless threads like this.

[stomachmonkey]

Love the last three lines of that.

Our Countries were founded under the Christian way

To our "guests" I can say,

If You don't like it, You don't have to stay!!

Christians are the only real citizens?

If you are not Christian don't emigrate here and if you do be prepared to be subordinated?

Yeah, sounds exactly like the principals this country was founded on.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Love the last three lines of that.



Christians are the only real citizens?

If you are not Christian don't emigrate here and if you do be prepared to be subordinated?

Yeah, sounds exactly like the principals this country was founded on.

It damn sure wasn't founded on the come here and whine about our seasoned traditions and make us change for you either
No one said that you had to be Christian, just don't expect the people who have been here too change because you don't like something, if you liked what you had at home, why did you leave

[kstar]

Emphasis in bold is mine.

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

. . . snip . . .

No one said that you had to be Christian, just don't expect the people who have been here too change because you don't like something, if you liked what you had at home, why did you leave

Too bad you can't actually ask the folks who founded America, but the history books can fill you in on a primary reason -> freedom of or from religion.

Perhaps you would be happier in a theocracy?

Best,

Kurt

[Shaun @ Tru6]

6 motor mountings, fiiiiiiiive golden rings, 4 calling birds....

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Emphasis in bold is mine.



Too bad you can't actually ask the folks who founded America, but the history books can fill you in on a primary reason -> freedom of or from religion.

Perhaps you would be happier in a theocracy?

Best,

Kurt

That is true, but those people left the country and started a new one. What Byron is saying is that now people are coming to that country and complaining about the established traditions. If they don't like it, then they are free to leave and start their own new country.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

That is true, but those people left the country and started a new one. What Byron is saying is that now people are coming to that country and complaining about the established traditions. If they don't like it, then they are free to leave and start their own new country.

I understand and I celebrate the tradition of Christmas, but we cannot forget that one of the tenants of the America experiment is freedom of and from religion.

While most of Americans may be Christians, America was never intended to be a "Christian Nation".

And, while the doctrine within some religions may not be one of tolerance, our Country was founded on the principal of tolerance.

The Christians need to tolerate those of other religions and no religion and likewise!

Happy Festivus!

Best,

Kurt

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

That is true, but those people left the country and started a new one. What Byron is saying is that now people are coming to that country and complaining about the established traditions. If they don't like it, then they are free to leave and start their own new country.

I'd like to know exactly who is complaining.

I hear a lot of noise about the Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas flak but honestly I don't ever recall seeing anything where non Christians are doing the complaining.

Protestants and Catholics combined make up nearly 75-80% of the countries population. The other 20-25% is split up between Jews, Muslims, Atheists etc.. In fact I believe Atheists rank number 3.

Here's what I think. I think the retailers have figured out that it's a lot cheaper for them to cover all the bases with a Happy Holidays campaign v Merry Christmas, Happy Chanuka. Also covers them for New Years so they get a ton of mileage from it.

I think you guys are pissed at the wrong people.

You are being had.

[gprsh924]

I pretty much agree with you both, I was just trying to translate for everyone.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

I pretty much agree with you both, I was just trying to translate for everyone.

Hold on; you agree?

Then . . . I disagree!

Best to you,

Kurt

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Emphasis in bold is mine.



Too bad you can't actually ask the folks who founded America, but the history books can fill you in on a primary reason -> freedom of or from religion.

Perhaps you would be happier in a theocracy?

Best,

Kurt

It is Freedom of Religion not freedom FROM religion, get it right

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen guarantees freedom of religion, as long as religious activities do not infringe on public order in ways detrimental to society.Freedom of religion is a guarantee by a government for freedom of belief for individuals and freedom of worship for individuals and groups. It is generally recognized to also include the freedom not to follow any religion. Freedom of religion is considered by many in many nations and people to be a fundamental human right.[1]

In a country with a state religion, freedom of religion is generally considered to mean that the government permits religious practices of other sects besides the state religion, and does not persecute believers in other faiths. In the Middle Ages, toleration of Judaism was a contentious issue throughout Christendom. Today, there are concerns about the persecution of religious minorities in Islamic states (for example the persecution of Bahá'ís and the status of religious freedom in Iran) and in some Communist states such as China and North Korea, as well as other forms of intolerance in other countries (for example banning the wearing of prominent religious articles in Turkey[2] or banning the Quran in United States courts where a Bible is allowed[3]) Freedom of religion as a legal concept is related to but not identical with religious toleration, separation of church and state, or laïcité (a secular state).

Where individuals and not governments are concerned, religious toleration is generally taken to refer to an attitude of acceptance towards other people's religions. Such toleration does not require that one view other religions as equally true; rather, the assumption is that each citizen will grant that others have the right to hold and practice their own beliefs. Against this backdrop, proselytism can be a contentious issue, as it could be regarded as an offense against the validity of others' religious beliefs, including the belief in no religion at all.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the 58 Member States of the United Nations General Assembly on December 10, 1948, at the Palais de Chaillot in Paris, France defines freedom of religion and belief as follows: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance.

The anti American aclu is always suing someone on X-mas, and we have already had a few local news stories & letters to the editor slamming x-mas.

Personally, I'm not a very religius person, but I am respectful of those who are, no matter who their invisable friend is. Itr just burns me when others choose to try and ruin the event for everyone else, just take advantage of the days off and sales that come with it.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

It is Freedom of Religion not freedom FROM religion, get it right


. . . snip . . .

Byron - did you read the excerpt you posted? It includes the quip I extracted below!

Wiki back at you:

Freedom of religion is a guarantee by a government for freedom of belief for individuals and freedom of worship for individuals and groups. It is generally recognized to also include the freedom not to follow any religion. Freedom of religion is considered by many in many nations and people to be a fundamental human right.

A quick read of some of Jefferson's letters will confirm that this was the spirit of the Document.

Here's an excerpt - my emphasis added in bold:

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved ... the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.

-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808). This is his second use of the term "wall of separation," here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter. This wording was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause: Reynolds (98 US at 164, 1879); Everson (330 US at 59, 1947); McCollum (333 US at 232, 1948)

Certainly your reply wasn't mean to say that everyone in America must have a "religion"?

Best to you,

Kurt

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

What Byron is saying is that now people are coming to that country and complaining about the established traditions.

Which ones? The Puritans who banned the celebration of Christmas or the Catholic movement that re-instated it or....

Howabout the native Americans who did neither? Sometimes I much prefer those traditions over the white ursurping ones.

That "Poem" is as slimely political as its suppossed targets.

Personally, I'm not a very religius person

But, you don't have a problem using the RR as a tool.

[Moneyguy1]

How many folks I know who do not attend Church at all, their children do not either, and the parents say "Let them decide when they get old enough". I do not judge this behavior, but it is a reasonable conclusion that if one wanted to keep the Christ in Christmas, they would make sure their kids were introduced to the original idea for the season early. In addition it's "Gimmie!!Gimmie!!Gimmie!!" with one set of parents trying to outdo the other with expensive gifts for Junior and Sis. It is a social and psychological disconnect.

[frogger]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Byron - did you read the excerpt you posted?

Byron can't read, though he seems fond of rainbow colors.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Hey, since this post/poem is in-your-face confrontational and pretty much dares anyone not in agreement with it's point of view to disagree, I'll respond by offering the following humorous version.

Of course I fully expect some to be "frightened" by the "dilution of our culture" it represents (not Byron). But to me?; a thoroughly assimilated, 2nd generation, graduate-educated hispanic who speaks the King's English much better than my grandparent's Spanish, I find those terms to be "Right-PC" for the old expression, "mongrelization"!) but I digress into politics.

Look, its just a little self deprecating humor. Nothing is meant by it except to poke fun at ourselves - hispanics, with it.

P.S. Remember, I didn't post this thread making Christmas into a divisive thing instead of a joyous holiday....so again, I offer it in humor (okay, okay, I admit it...to annoy Byron just a little!): C'mon By, we're still Porsche buddies.....a little? Regardless of your reaction, Merry Christmas to you, Dan


T'was the night before Christmas and all through la casa
Not a creature was stirring, only the masa.

Mama making tamales con mucho cuidado
In hopes old Santa would feel obligado
To bring all the hijos, both buenos y malos
A nice batch of dulces and other regalos

Mis hermanos and I went to sleep in our camas
Some in calsones, some in piyamas
Cuando out in the yard I heard un gran grito
That I jumped to my feet like a frightened cabrito

And who in the world do you think que era?
El mero mero with his venados estaban afuera
Santa Claus in a sleigh with a big sombrero
Came dashing along like a little bombero

I watched as they came, and this little fat hombre
Was shouting and whistling, and calling by nombre
"Ay PEPE, AY JESSE, AY CUCA, AY BETO
AY PANCHO, AY CHATO, CHUY Y NETO!"

Then standing straight up, with his hands on his pecho,
He flew to the top of our very own techo
With his round little belly like a bowl of jalea
He struggled to squeeze down our old chimenea

Then huffing and puffing, and a little cansado
He picked up a bag that looked so pesado
He filled all the stockings with lovely regalos
For none of the hijos had been very malos

Then chuckling aloud, seeming very contento
He turned like a flash and was gone like the viento
As I heard him exclaim and this is verdad,
"MERRY CHRISTMAS A TODOS! FELIZ NAVIDAD!"