Lobbies are great if you don't care that your vote doesn't count.


I've been thinking about creating a lobby to support the interests of average citizens, but then I remember it's just called voting.:(

I finally agree with you on something. I've had the same thought. The "American Citizen Lobby", where we could out-bid and out-bribe the other lobbies to "convince" the politicians to do the right thing.

An example: Ever wonder why the IRS doesn't have an online tax filing system like Intuit or HR Block? Why do we need to file our taxes online through a middleman, paying them a fee? Because the tax preparation lobby "convinced" the government to do so. We could easily out-bribe that lobby!

That was exactly the concept, yes. But the membership fees were too much like a tax when I did some market testing.

Must be mighty chilly in Hell right about now.:D

Shaun, you are dead right. We elect those axxholes to represent us. They have rooms full of people on their staffs. Why should a paid "lobbyist" be required for them to do the proper research on every issue and vote accordingly. It's a phony copout to pretend that lobbyists are needed to "explain" the issues to the politicians.

Lobbyists to me are like what Willy S. said about lawyers: 200 at the bottom of the ocean would be a good start.;)

No, we pay more for drugs than those countries with socialized medicine because those countries' governments run their healthcare systems and negotiate bulks discount prices for those drugs, which BTW, are mostly invented here because we have not yet killed the profits for that industry. Those companies make up their discounts here, since there is no single, centralized power to buy drugs for the whole country and we don't (yet) have price controls on drugs. This has been explained here ad nauseum. Take the profit out of inventing drugs and guess what happens. And anyone who gets a patent that's actually enforced and makes a drug with a huge demand is going to make a good profit. The more socialist-leaning folks here think a 10-13 digit number is an "obscene profit" while ignoring the 9-10 digit number that it cost to bring that drug to market. Sometimes I really wish those folks could get their way so we could all see the disastrous results.

I certainly vehemently disagree with a lot of the causes that a lot of lobbyists represent. But without lobbyists, I think private gun ownership would have been banned long ago, there'd be all kinds of drugs not ever invented, there'd be fewer tax exemptions, our car manufacturers would have been pared down by far more regulations and basically, there'd just be a ton of damage due to the laws of unintended consequences.

I remember interning in a Congressman's office when there was talk of eliminating the dollar bill and going totally to the dollar coin. Sounds like a great idea, since the coins far outlast the dollar bills. Lots of folks in Congress would base their vote on that alone. The it turns out one of the suppliers for the paper used for dollar bills was based in that Congressman's district. And then there were all the manufacturers of the dollar bill changing machines and the vending machines that needed to be converted to accept dollar coins. No one had thought of this stuff until these groups hired lobbyists. If you had worked for one of them and there were no lobbyists, you'd have been put out of business long ago.

Very well said.

Have you ever heard of a Congressman changing his vote due to vehement staff opposition? Congressional staff do their research to find supporting evidence for their boss's position on an issue, not to debunk it.

Many different clients. Subjects which included water, electricity, developers, educators, cities, beer, deer, landfills, doe low level waste, and a few others.

The lobbying gets really good when dems are running the show.

The worst bunch that I ever helped were education associations. We must have had 10 of them, and they never ended up with what they truely wanted. I pondered why and how this could happen, and I never found a logical answer. They (education interest groups) had the potential to run politics at the state house. The best way I can explain the actions of the education interest groups is like the prisoners dillema. No cooperation. It's just how it is.

I understand the positives behind throwing out congress every two years, and applying term limts, bla bla bla. However, it's only going to change things for the worse. You have to know certain things to get ***** done. It may be as simple as where the chief clerks office is, but someone has to know, and a staffer is going to be that somebody 9 times out of 10. The staffer knows what it takes to get things done. You aren't ever going to get rid of all of them because good ones are always in high demand. Most elected officials have a basic understanding of parliamentary procedure, but that will not get things done. With 635 newly elected officials in DC, you will see nothing more than an expensive lunch, everyday. They (Reps only) wouldn't even have a clue how to adopt the rules from the previous session that contains the procedure for the election of a presiding officer.

As you well know, there is not a single one of us that hasn't lobbied for something in our lives, and you know that power is in the numbers. You didn't elect them, your single vote was merely one in the bunch, and the bunch as a whole elected them. If lobbyist piss you off to no end, do your part, spread the word amongst your neighbors, tell the elected official how you feel about lobbyist, and that everyone of his/her constituents is watching their vote on every issue. You can also get off your duff, seek office and make a difference, simple as that.

Exactly. That's why the problem IS the politicians and that problem is often if not mostly caused by lobbyists. If the pols did their job and the lobbyists were shot the problem would be over!

But as long as lobbyists are allowed to toss $$$$ at politicians we will have a problem.

Here's a better idea, though no less unconstitutional. Let's ban pollsters. If politicians focused on voting their conscience or, dare I say, what their constituents wanted, then we'd have real representative government and it would be very difficult for politicians to pander and change their minds according to pollsters.

I wrote to my senators and congressman on the amnesty bill for illegal aliens. Sen. Jim Webb wrote back that he vehemently opposed amnesty and would never vote for it. But then he did vote for it! Why? Because he sees the constant polls on how VA is becoming more and more of a blue state and will even get more so, when the new tax hike in MD drives some of Montgomery County's wealthier residents to northern VA. So I have no idea what he really believes on the issue and, at least based on his disingenuous letter to me, he flip flopped on the issue once it became clear to him that he would not suffer for his unpopular vote.

I don't think i have the lack of morals and ethics to get into politics. I do however like the idea of having publicly acknowledged lobbying groups to lobby for us. They could state their intentions and accept donations via paypal or something, than take the money to congress and get things done. I still feel a little nauseous at the reality that "money talks and bull**** walks" in our government.

Are there any other rights in the first 10 amendments you'd like to abolish? Right to counsel? Trial by jury?

BTW, lobbyists cannot give anymore money to pols than individuals can. At present I think the federal limit is around $2300 per fed. candidate, but I can't remember what the limit is for total fed. candidates. However, lobbyists, because they tend to be well connected in the business communities, can help get their friends to give and thereby become bundlers. And they can also influence PAC giving. But it's not like they can hand brown bags full of cash under the table while at dinner. Sure, it probably happens once in a while, but it is very illegal. My company has season tickets for the Washington Nationals and we give all tix to clients. Most of my clients who are federal employees decline them, because they cost more than $20. Once in a while, a fed. employee candidate will tell me to give them to his or her spouse, who sometimes it turns out is also a client at their non-gov't. job. There are pretty tight restrictions since about 1995 on lobbying gifts. I think it's pretty silly that I can't take a longtime client to lunch because he works on the Hill. I'm not trying to influence legislation, I just want to grab lunch with someone who's sent us a lot of business and over the years has become a friend.

anyone know how much lobbyists spend each year?

total, by industry, etc.

Rick, it is quite a stretch for me to honestly believe that pollsters are even remotely anywhere near as much of a problem as paid l;obbyists.

You seem to be juxtoposing your dislike of Sen. Webb with lobbying.

P.S. He.s not from my state but I like Webb.

On the other hand, maybe i wouldn't mind becoming a lobbyist on fighting against topics of my interest. How does one become a lobbyist? I don't remember it being a minor here at NMSU.

1) See above.
2) If I had a moral problem with the direction a client was wanting to go, I encouraged an alternative.
3) Parliamentary procedure will beat the smoozers everytime.
4) No, I do not. Our ethics laws clearly will not allow an elected official to lobby, solicit for lobbying contracts, or accept contracts to lobby while in office. What they do as a member of society at their own home, like you and I, is not any of our business.
5) Don't care enough to know.

Don't rule out fighting for things that you do believe in. You just finished exams, right? What's the structure at NMSU? Is there an Ombudsman? Does the vice presidents office handle IGR and legislative affairs? Find out what office does what within the university and go from there. I'd stay away from your Student Gov't Org though.

I'd rather pay "market" rates of $15 or whatever it is, than pay a portion of the true cost if the gov't actually ran this. Remember, they would have to include the cost of their coders, the building they work in, electricity, benefits, etc. If H&R block takes a loss that year, TS...maybe their costs were too high.

Lobbyists are nothing more than salesmen with business and government connections. Helps to have an expertise as well, but it's little more than schmoozing and pushing money around resulting in positive ROI for the client.

If you honestly believe everything that you just wrote it probably indicates one of two things. You are either the most naive person in the building or you truly were in the correct business per your mind set.

(methinks that your reply to #5 speaks volumes)