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on2wheels52 12-31-2007 07:54 AM

Most-least firearm friendly states
 
Observations while thumbing through the 27th edition of State Laws and Published Ordinances-Firearms provided by the ATF, and excluding city and county municipal codes. The winner of the state with the smallest section is Wyoming, with ½ a page. I was surprised to find Vermont next with 1 ¼ page. Alabama, Iowa, and Kansas had less than three pages each. Supposedly restrictive Massachusetts and Illinois had only 17 ¾ and 9 ¾ respectively, although IL has eleven pages of city codes to MASS‘s two. But the overwhelming winner was California, with over 46 pages, plus 20 pages of city codes.
Quite a load for a firearms dealer to keep up with. The entire Federal code dealing with firearms dealers, Title 27 CFR Part 478, covers only 40 pages, and in bigger print at that.
Obviously this is a pretty subjective rating system, it only takes one restrictive ordinance to skew how gun friendly any particular state is.
Jim

M.D. Holloway 12-31-2007 07:56 AM

How many pages for Tejas? And of that, is it also available in Spainish?

legion 12-31-2007 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by on2wheels52 (Post 3674582)
Obviously this is a pretty subjective rating system, it only takes one restrictive ordinance to skew how gun friendly any particular state is.
Jim

Exactly, while Illinois may not have a huge volume of state-wide firearm laws, the ones that it does have are extremely restrictive. The worst being the FOID act, requiring all potential firearm owners to register with the State Police and to recieve a special ID card.

tabs 12-31-2007 08:00 AM

A state only needs 2 words of code.."NO FIREARMS."

NICKG 12-31-2007 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 3674594)
A state only needs 2 words of code.."NO FIREARMS."

and that state is NJ. to get a gun, one needs to have a reason...and that reason MUST be approved by the local police chief.
In my town, as in most towns, there is no approved reason to get a gun...
Rights? what does that mean? you have the rights I say you have...that is how it is done here in NJ

RickM 12-31-2007 08:34 AM

Nick: When has "Target Shooting" or "Self Defense" failed to get you a permit? I've never had any type of problem here in NJ. Look at NYC where you can't get a permit for any reason whatsoever.

Tobra 12-31-2007 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 3674594)
A state only needs 2 words of code.."NO FIREARMS."

Which of course violates the US Constitution.

I find it hard to believe NJ has laws like that and they have not been overturned. The law banning handguns in San Francisco violates both state and federal constitutions, which they knew when they wrote it.

NICKG 12-31-2007 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickM (Post 3674644)
Nick: When has "Target Shooting" or "Self Defense" failed to get you a permit? I've never had any type of problem here in NJ. Look at NYC where you can't get a permit for any reason whatsoever.

you don't live in sussex county...they refuse most all rifle permits, save shotguns (and you must have a hunting liscense then) and will not allow handguns period.
target shootoing would not fly in my town...or most others here either, much less self defense. I actually did apply and said i wanted it for self defenese..to which i was politely told that was THIER job and i need not worry about it...apparently the PD cheif have a pact to do it as I have heard this from a bunch of freinds too.

NICKG 12-31-2007 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 3674645)
Which of course violates the US Constitution.

I find it hard to believe NJ has laws like that and they have not been overturned. The law banning handguns in San Francisco violates both state and federal constitutions, which they knew when they wrote it.

that is the sly part..it doesn't say that, you need to get the permits thru the PD..and if they say no..you are beat

legion 12-31-2007 08:40 AM

Nick, that clearly violates due process.

Where is the ACLU?

Oh, right, they don't care about the Second Amendment.

RickM 12-31-2007 08:41 AM

What rifle permits? All you need is a Firearm ID card and you can buy as many rifles as you like.

FWIU, the Police chief cannot legally prevent you from accessing a pistol permit. This info comes from collector friends. I also have friends in Sussex that shoot and have no issues getting permits.

red-beard 12-31-2007 08:50 AM

Texas has quite a bit, but mostly it is "connected" legislation, referring back to something else like on definitions. My book on Texas firearm laws covers more than just ownership: self defense, property, carrying in car, concealed carry, etc. If it is just the stuff on ownership, I expect it would be quite small.

on2wheels52 12-31-2007 08:53 AM

LM
Texas has almost four pages, the only bi-lingual section I found was for Puerto Rico.
Jim

NICKG 12-31-2007 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickM (Post 3674666)
What rifle permits? All you need is a Firearm ID card and you can buy as many rifles as you like.

FWIU, the Police chief cannot legally prevent you from accessing a pistol permit. This info comes from collector friends. I also have friends in Sussex that shoot and have no issues getting permits.

are they cops? collecters are different...they genereally have had their cards for a long time..i am speaking of getting new ones.

RickM 12-31-2007 09:41 AM

Nick: The Firearm ID card has to be issued if you ask....no questions. Once you get it you can purchase as many rifles (long arms) as you'd like and the PD has zero involvement or knowledge.

A chief can give you a hard time but they are legally obligated to signoff if you are not a felon or mentally incapable. The local NRA chapter should be able to assist if you run into interference.

Please read this page: http://www.njguns.com/permit.htm

" 2C:58-3(f). Purchase of firearms

"...the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants. A permit to purchase a handgun shall be valid for a period of 90 days from the date of issuance and may be renewed by the issuing authority for good cause for an additional 90 days."

" 2C:58-3(f). Purchase of firearms

"...There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter. "



"Some municipalities take months to process applications. This is an illegal process
which as been propagated due to the lack of people challenging the system. If you don't
want to wait months for your permit, you don't have to. Take your municipality to court
and demand your application be processed according to State statutes."

Wrecked944 12-31-2007 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NICKG (Post 3674655)
you don't live in sussex county...they refuse most all rifle permits, save shotguns (and you must have a hunting liscense then) and will not allow handguns period.
target shootoing would not fly in my town...or most others here either, much less self defense. I actually did apply and said i wanted it for self defenese..to which i was politely told that was THIER job and i need not worry about it...apparently the PD cheif have a pact to do it as I have heard this from a bunch of freinds too.

I grew up in Sussex County and I've never heard of anything like this. My friends had no trouble getting guns and my neighborhood sounded like a freaking war zone during hunting season. What town do you live in where they don't let people have guns? This smells fishy to me. Some of the local police departments in Sussex County are less than professional (to put it nicely) - more like Boss Hogg than NYPD Blue. I'd get a lawyer if I were you. Sounds like you've run into a small town cop with an attitude problem who thinks he/she can make up the laws arbitrarily.

RickM 12-31-2007 09:49 AM

To add, here is the law. It is very clear as to who can and cannot obtain a permit: http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/legis/2003c73.pdf

NICKG 12-31-2007 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanusCole (Post 3674794)
I grew up in Sussex County and I've never heard of anything like this. My friends had no trouble getting guns and my neighborhood sounded like a freaking war zone during hunting season. What town do you live in where they don't let people have guns? This smells fishy to me. Some of the local police departments in Sussex County are less than professional (to put it nicely) - more like Boss Hogg than NYPD Blue. I'd get a lawyer if I were you. Sounds like you've run into a small town cop with an attitude problem who thinks he/she can make up the laws arbitrarily.

where in sussex? i live in franklin

Rick Lee 12-31-2007 10:08 AM

Sure am glad I live in VA. Best thing about VA's gun laws are the state pre-emption laws, which ban all entities but the state government from passing further restrictions on guns. Lots of cities and counties have tried and the state squashes them every time. Moving to AZ soon, which I believe has a similar gun culture. In VA it's real easy to buy a gun and carry it, even resell it in a parking lot to a stranger. But get caught misusing that gun and they will come after you worse than the feds ever thought about and in VA there are mandatory minimums and no parole. Ouch.

DaveE 12-31-2007 11:04 AM

I think PA is pretty liberal (?) with it's gun laws, meaning not many restrictions. Lots of hunters, lots of guns. The Gov. even tried to have a law pass restricting PA residents to only purchasing ONE handgun a month and it wouldn't pass. Come to PA, buy all the guns you like!

legion 12-31-2007 11:06 AM

The guy who sits diagonal from me is from PA. He is always bragging about how great the gun laws are outside of Pitsburgh and Philly. He even had his CCW, which is worthless in IL...

cashflyer 12-31-2007 11:19 AM

We buy our guns at yard sales and flea markets. Less paperwork.

DaveE 12-31-2007 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion (Post 3674970)
The guy who sits diagonal from me is from PA. He is always bragging about how great the gun laws are outside of Pitsburgh and Philly. He even had his CCW, which is worthless in IL...

I believe PA was once described like this: "At one end of the state you have Pittsburgh, at the other Philadelphia. In between you have Alabama".

Rick Lee 12-31-2007 11:33 AM

I got my first CCW while living in Pittsburgh around 1993, no qualifying, no fingerprints. We have the one-gun-a-month rationing here in VA, but CCW's are exempt, so it means nothing to me.

Wrecked944 12-31-2007 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NICKG (Post 3674820)
where in sussex? i live in franklin

Vernon, right next door. I don't live there any more but still have good friends in the area. I'm not surprised you had problems with the Franklin cops. I always got the impression they were yahoos - not that the other local PD's are any better. I think Vernon had just three police cars to patrol 67 sq miles back when I was growing up. In fact, IIRC, Hardyston didn't even have a PD. Of course, I can't think of a single actual crime that got committed the whole time I lived there - aside from the occassional teenage prank and maybe some drunken idiots at Action Park. So maybe the local cops get bored and start making up new laws.

Anyway, I'd seriously get an attorney and fight it. Of course, I've had friends who pissed off the local cops and ended up getting pulled over every time they got behind the wheel. So be cautious. Small towns can be great and they can also suck massively.

MT930 12-31-2007 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflyer (Post 3674992)
We buy our guns at yard sales and flea markets. Less paperwork.

Yea I had no idea the restrictions on firearms in the rest of the country. I was told the east was bad I had no idea you had to ask the cops if you could buy a gun WTF ? We must be the least affected with the exception of Wyoming, used to live there also. Firearms are almost encouraged here in Montana. What do they say '' If firearms arms are outlawed, only outlaws will have them" very shocking, even the liberals here own a couple shotguns.

nostatic 12-31-2007 02:29 PM

there are liberals in CA who own guns as well. Don't believe everything you read ;)

frogger 12-31-2007 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 3675318)
there are liberals in CA who own guns as well. Don't believe everything you read ;)

Don't rock their world, nostatic. Next you'll be telling them Rush is a gasbag. :eek:

legion 12-31-2007 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 3675318)
there are liberals in CA who own guns as well. Don't believe everything you read ;)

We need more of you.

Heck, we need more politicians like Bill Richardson too.

john70t 12-31-2007 04:54 PM

When the police take full control over a law-abiding persons right to home/self defense, then they should also take full responsibility and liability.

If someone is denied a permit and then is killed in their own home, who's fault is that?

porsche930dude 12-31-2007 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t (Post 3675547)
When the police take full control over a law-abiding persons right to home/self defense, then they should also take full responsibility and liability.

If someone is denied a permit and then is killed in their own home, who's fault is that?

The killer with the gun that he stole from the last victim who wussed out :)


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