Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 3680728)

Failure to follow the Constitution of the United States of America.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/warandtreaty.htm


We need to return to the Constitution NOW!

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3680203)

I am just saying that our motivation ran much deeper than oil

Originally Posted by Chocaholic (Post 3679428)

Perhaps you are too young to remember Viet Nam? 50,000+ of our people. Makes Iraq look like a walk in the park.

Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 3680826)

I totally disagree. This was/is all about oil and money. 9/11 was a convenient rallying cry to get people on-board.

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3680838)

OK, if Bush and clan are so sinister as to sacrifice (nay murder) thousands upon thousands of innocents to acquire a better angle on the areas oil, why did they balk at planting a few WMDs and thus solidifying the "hero" Neocons rule of the US for decades? Why the sudden conscience?

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 3680821)

Does that mean every military conflict we've been involved in since WWII has been unconstitutional? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1 (Post 3680947)

There are factors and then there are FACTORS.

Simply a matter of how much emphasis is given to a specific factor.

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1 (Post 3680972)

len

While I agree (and always have) with the big stick foreign policy because if the stick is big enough and strong enough it never has to be used, I would question the "dreamer" aspect of our president. Dreaming requires some degree of imagination.

Further, a dream is only a beginning, like an idea. Edison had it right when he said that invention (and it could be any project) is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Perhaps that would in part explain how things went so wrong.....no long term planning.

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1 (Post 3680983)

len..I do not see villain in him either. I see very little in him, however. Take that any way you wish; I just see him as, well, "limited" in the sense of being able to look at the consequences of present actions on the future.

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3680165)

It always amazes me how quickly everyone forgets what Iraq was even about. I don't even see it mentioned in this thread. WMD's were a factor, they were not the reason. Spreading freedom and democracy were factors( more so side effects), they were not the reason. Oil was a factor, it was not the reason.

We invaded Iraq because we made the very bold and IMHO proper statement after 9/11 that the US was done fukcing around when it came to our national security. That when we say something or give an ultimatum by god we mean it.

We were lost after 9/11 wondering how we got to a point that this could happen and our image as a paper tiger/pushover was a huge factor. Saddam called what he thought was a bluff and there we stood before the world...do we continue with our empty threats that have emboldened our enemies or do we seize the opportunity to show them we're serious again?

Now we can argue tactics, strategy or even if we should have rebuilt them at all but the above was what it was really about. We did the right thing in taking Saddam down, the rest is certainly debatable.

In the future I would like to see us involved much much much less in world affairs like this, but the ball was rolling on this one before Bush even took office(UN resolutions).

Originally Posted by surflvr911sc (Post 3681203)

It amasses me that people have forgotten that we probably spent more than 20 Billion dollars on Iraq between the Gulf War in 1991 and Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003. That is not counting the wars themselves, that’s just Operations Northern and Southern Watch.

We didn’t just flip a switch on Saddam and Iraq after 9-11, Saddam switched it when he invaded Kuwait. He continued to defy the world and destabilize the region for the next 12 years and now military operations have been ongoing for almost 17 years.

Regardless of your feelings on the war you cannot pretend that this was all thought up as a response to 9-11 w/ drum beats to WMDs, and that nothing else was taken into account.

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3680838)

OK, if Bush and clan are so sinister as to sacrifice (nay murder) thousands upon thousands of innocents to acquire a better angle on the areas oil, why did they balk at planting a few WMDs and thus solidifying the "hero" Neocons rule of the US for decades? Why the sudden conscience?

Like I said, oil was a factor in that the free trade of oil is very important to a stable global economy but it was only a factor.

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3681436)

I can see why you might be "amazed." First you said that our invasion of Iraq was because after "9/11" we (read that as Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz/Pearle, etc) decided that to battle terrorism we needed to invade Iraq. Then at the end you said it was because of "UN resolutions." So which was it?

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3681436)

Neither is correct. According to reports from Bush's own people (those who have quit his admin) there was much talk from the guys mentioned above about attacking Iraq long before 9/11 or the UN bull***** and 9/11 simply provided a good excuse if they could convince most Americans that 9/11 and Saddam were related...which even Team Bush now admits is not true.

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3681436)

Besides, if we really wanted to go after the 9/11 bad guys we would have invaded Pakistan and Saudi Arabia even before Afghanistan!