Excessive Force...Police Video...Who Is At Fault?...

slow&rusty · 01-05-2008, 08:40 AM

Interested to hear your thoughts on this:

Yasin

Gogar · 08:59 AM

The driver was being a *****, but HELL YES, that's excessive.

I think the officer kind of overestimated the 'threat level', that's all. And why did he pull him out of the car in the first place?

Check out the officer's body language in his shoulders in the first 20 seconds of the tape. You can see it coming.

edit: And NO, the man was not innocent at all. He was being an a-hole and the first words out of his mouth were an admission of speeding. Take the ticket like a man, and go on your way.

But the gap between "a-hole" and "tazer" should be a little bigger than that example.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

That was an easy one - the cop was 100% right. Whoever posted that video with the "are you outraged?" or "all because of a speeding ticket" is an idiot. The driver was tased because he refused to comply with police orders, which, in this situation were pretty reasonable. I'm not outraged in the least. Why should a cop have to chase down or wrestle some non-compliant idiot in the middle of a busy road when he can just taser him and end it right there? Then the idiot driver keeps telling the cop to read him his rights. What a jerk. If he knows his rights, why does he want to hear them again from the cop? It didn't appear as though the cop was questioning him. If he wants to create a techicality, why does he remind the cop to Mirandize him? I've gotten plenty of tickets and that video reminded me of one I got in the desert in NV. Looked very similar. Somehow I walked away with a reduced fine (orig. was $425) and a "have a nice day". I had a gun in my door pocket and a radar detector. Why did I get off so easily? Because I don't piss off cops during traffic stops! It's not that hard.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Jeremy, in a lot of places, if you refuse to sign your ticket, they arrest you. In fact you are legally detained when they pull you over. Letting you sign your ticket keeps them from having to book you. It's not an admission of guilt and there's really no reason to not sign. It's a guarantee you'll be cuffed and taken to booking. That's why the guy had to get out of the car.

jorian · 01-05-2008, 09:02 AM

Officer is waaaay out of line. For not signing a ticket. Unbelievable. I saw no threat to the officer.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorian

Officer is waaaay out of line. For not signing a ticket. Unbelievable. I saw no threat to the officer.

Did you miss the part about the cop telling him to stop and put his hands behind his back, while the driver ignore him and kept walking past the officer? He was already gonna get arrested for not signing the ticket. That was his choice.

Gogar · 01-05-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Jeremy, in a lot of places, if you refuse to sign your ticket, they arrest you. That's why the guy had to get out of the car.

Thanks, Rick. I guess if the officer had said "Sir, signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt; however, if you don't sign the ticket, I WILL ARREST YOU" It might have gone better.

Again, I agree that the guy in the car was being a total jackhole for no reason at all, but that tazer came out fast.

Gogar · 01-05-2008, 09:11 AM

You got me thinking, though, Rick. What if the cop didn't taser him and the guy started running from the Cop, and ran out into traffic and got nailed by a Semi Truck? A few more posts and I might flip-flop.

Dantilla · 01-05-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

I think the officer kind of overestimated the 'threat level', that's all. And why did he pull him out of the car in the first place?

The officer didn't pull him out of the car. He said "Hop out of the car", and the driver got out on his own.

The driver asked for it. Nobody was injured. The pregnant wife should kick her hubby in the crotch for being a jerk.

Cops should be held to a high standard. Seems silly to cart somebody off the jail for refusing to sign a simple speeding ticket, but the cop is also in a potential two against one situation- He has to maintain control. If both hubby and wife are outside of the car walking around, the cop is no longer in control of an unknown situation.

Moses · 01-05-2008, 09:18 AM

There was NO PHYSICAL THREAT to the cop. Period. It is not necessary to arrest a motorist who will not sign a ticket. The officer can make a notation on the summons. Also, the traffic stop is recorded on video.

People have died from being tased. That officer was using his taser to force compliance. Strictly a macho pissing contest, nothing more.

Last I heard, it's not a crime to act like a butt hole.

When the officer pulled his taser out, the citizen was trying to point out a speed limit posting. At the time of the tasing, the citizen was walking back to his car. Hardly a threat. The officer should be arrested for assault. Yes, I'm serious.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

From my own experience (again, I've gotten plenty of tickets), I can pretty much recite the whole thing about signing the ticket. I didn't hear it on this video, but the officer always tells the driver "signing this is in no way an admission of guilt, but is merely a promise to respond to the citation by the court date marked in box C". I've never asked what happens if I didn't sign it, because I don't blow off moving violations. When I got nailed in the desert, it was US Park Police and he had a very conspicuous taser on his belt, stood behind my car and yelled to me what to do. It's a little dicey out there in the desert. You can go for miles and not see another soul (meaning no help available) or you can get run over by someone with hwy. hypnosis who never saw you. In the middle of a busy road is no place to be wrestling with a non-compliant subject who appears to be walking toward your driver side door. The driver sure seemed to be fine once he was in cuffs, as he wouldn't shut up and didn't make a peep about the pain.

Gogar · 01-05-2008, 09:20 AM

Dan, I meant "pull him out of the car" figuratively.

And we can all make up what-if scenarios where the pregnant wife jumps out of the passenger side of the "Durango" with an AK-47 and starts shooting, but c'mon.

It's Bush's fault. This cop should run for Secretary of Defense. Then we could invade Sweden.

jorian · 01-05-2008, 09:21 AM

Give me a break. Getting tased and arrested for not signing a ticket is not an acceptable response. The officer is in charge and should have managed the situation better. Clearly the driver is being obstinate in not wanting to sign but cops face this regularly.

RickM · RickM's Garage

IMO, the escalation of the situation was mostly the fault of the officer. He could have handled that without having the man exit the car....and pussy POs use a taser in a situation like this.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Moses, it sounds like you think obeying police commands during a traffic stop are optional. They are not. The driver could have gotten away with a mere speeding ticket, easily beatable in court, if the signs were as he claimed. Instead, he gets tased and goes to jail for resisting arrest and probably disorderly. Which would you rather get?

Dantilla · 01-05-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

It's Bush's fault. This cop should run for Secretary of Defense. Then we could invade Sweden.

Now THIS, I can agree with!! Thanks for the laugh.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Jorian, he was not tased for speeding or refusing to sign. He was tased for ignoring the cops orders to put his hands behind his back and then try to walk away. Let's keep that straight.

RickM, I don't know where this event happened, but in most places, AFAIK, you DO get arrested for refusing to sign. You have to get out of the car in order for them to arrest you. In fact, I've been asked to exit the car and go back to the cop car even when I wasn't getting arrested. Lots of cops do that to keep from having to stand in a busy road.

Gogar · 01-05-2008, 09:28 AM

I think it's Vernal, Utah. Small town, directly east of SLC, almost to Colorado.

livi · 01-05-2008, 09:30 AM

Glad I am not a police officer. Must be one of the most difficult jobs around. Although I can think of many situations where I think the cops may very well use much more force - gang brutality, hardened criminals, rapists and so on - I did react to this cop as seeming a tad 'un-smooth' and perhaps some seconds early with the tazer. Yes, the moron driver asked for it, but still, this is what makes the job IMO the most difficult around. I can´t really blame him. Maybe he has had colleagues gunned down in similar situations. Who knows.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Rick: Perhaps in some states it's an absolute requirement to sign. However, as Moses states, the officer used excessive force in this situation. While there is a place for their use tasers are used entirely too much.

This is how a level headed PO handles a belligerent motorist. If anyone deserved a tasering it's this guy....but the officer handled the situation in an exemplary manner.