Non Lethal Ammo
 

Gonna hit google and look but thoughts welcome.

Gave away all my stuff that goes bang when my daughter was born.

Firm believer in you can only hide it so that it takes the bed wetter's longer to find them but find them they will.

Daughter is 7 going on 8 , son 4 going on 5 so they are in the age range that I can start teaching proper handling.

Put the guard pooch to sleep 2 years ago, (have not slept comfortably since) and am not in a position to get a new one anytime soon. (Doberman will be the next one, the Mastiffs were awesome but destroyed my house, friggin spooge everywhere including the ceiling)

Just had a thought.

Rubber bullets.

Can I load them, what's the temp stopping power and can they be lethal at close range.

Or put another way, can they convince a bad guy to go away and not risk my kids offing the neighbors kid in a moment of poor judgement?

I'm surprised they don't make a device that makes the sound of racking a shotgun. If that doesn't work use it as a club. :)

I don't know much about rubber bullets but the bean bag projectiles used in shotguns sounds like a good choice.

Add: Now that I think of it, any "non lethal" weapon can likely result in death if the circumstances are right. Do you really want the scum around to sue your boots off after the fact?

Link to happy sack: http://www.keepshooting.com/ammunition/speciality/bean-bag-round-shotgun.htm

two words

german dum-dums

Sorry, but why would you being willing to give them a choice or chance?? If they are inside your home, don't scare them, eliminate them!!! The next house they break into my not be so lucky. Remember, they chose to break into your home, and if you let them go, they will do it again, and just laugh at you. If I find em in my home or biz, some one else will be taking them out.

I think he's trying to limit damage if one of the kiddies gets their hands on the firearm.

My advice would be to get a no-sight-required, fingertip actuated gun safe.

Rubber bullets and bean bags are deadly at close range. Even blanks can kill at close range. +1 on Rick's advice.....

In reading the effective range of the bean bag load it states "7 yards with heavy clothing". So, yes, not looking like a non-lethal option in close quarters.

Here's the Gun Vault.... http://www.elitetacticalsources.com/client/details.php?pid=1093

http://www.elitetacticalsources.com/...es/gun_sa4.jpg
http://www.elitetacticalsources.com/...es/gun_sa3.gif

More worried about my kids and their friends then I am about anyone else including the "next guy".

And as much as I love you Byron I love my kids more.

I grew up in a gun house, slept with one under the side of my bed and had proper training and respect for it.

Still had friends over that did not have the same training and respect.

Kids are stupid, stuff happens.

Looking for a safe balance.

Hmm,

Looks like an option.

Will check it out.

Thanks

Here's the link for all the models: http://www.elitetacticalsources.com/gun_safes.htm

Then there's always......... :D

Back-up Bed Rifle Rack:
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/wp-co...he-back-up.jpg

"You never know who might just be crazy or desperate enough to break into your home these days with the number of crazy folks running outside, which makes the “Back Up” idea all the more attractive. This simple gun rack fits right under your bed mattress, giving you unprecedented access to your shotgun at night. It retails for $39.95 which makes it all the more affordable to virtually everyone who owns a shotgun, but unfortunately I wouldn’t want to have this in my home unless I keep the bedroom door locked at all times just in case curious children wonder what a shotgun is doing under my bed while playing Hide-and-Seek."

I own several guns, blanks, rubber, less lethal they all kill. Do you really live in a place where you need a gun at a moments notice? Or are you just that paranoid? If the neighborhood is that bad, I'd move. Buy a proximity alarm that tells you that someone is coming on your property.

I would worry that having "non-lethal" ammo would give the kids the wrong level of respect for the weapon. My advice would be to remove or lock up the weapons until you can feel comfortable teaching them about the real thing. Rubber bullets would be too tempting for a kid.

Try a moat.....and sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.....or if you can't afford sharks you could go with the ever economical sea bass option. (saw this in a movie).

Lock up the guns.
Get a P7 that requires a 14 pould grip squeeze to cock the hammer.

Well stuff doesn't just 'happen'.

Children are injured because of lax parental oversight of their firearms, and a lack of training for the kids.

I have a wonderful 4 year old daughter, and I don't worry about my guns.

I have the following precautions in place:

-All long guns are disassembled and kept in locked cases with trigger locks installed. I bought a 6 pack of locks that are keyed alike. Its the first product on this page: http://www.winner-intl.com/hardware/trigger.html

-All hand guns are kept in a small Stack On gun safe. This is the model: http://www.stack-on.com/securityplus/strong_box_safes/ps-514.html

-All ammo is kept in army ammo boxes 7 feet off the ground in a closed cabinet.

-Keys to everything are well hidden far from the guns.


Rubber bullets are an extremely poor idea for a number of reasons:

A) If you display a firearm, there is the expectation that deadly force is going to used. An armed person may respond in kind and shoot you with real bullets.

B) Rubber bullets are still just as deadly to a child when fired from close range.

C) Rubber bullets have a high likelyhood of producing injury of some kind to the intruder, which will result in YOU getting sued over the dirtbags injuries. Wrongful death lawsuits are cheaper than paying for a lifetime of care for some criminal who was rendered handicaped in some fashion by your rubber bullets. A grim calculation I'm afraid.

Two words...


gun safe

All of my weapons are locked in a full-size safe and they also have trigger locks. I have them for hunting and target shooting, not home defense...

I've had that Gun Vault next to the bed for a number of years, it has worked as expected. Ant other firearms are in a locked display cabinet (our bedroom had a nice alcove for it) or at the shop. My sons are safe with 'loose' guns around but their friends have different backgrounds.
Jim

Stomachmonkey, how old were you before you were able to rack the slide back on a 1911? I think was probably nine or so. And I knew how to field strip that gun in seconds even then. My wife cannot rack the slides back on any of my SIG's. Those guns are paperweights to people who cannot cycle them. I would not leave a loaded wheel gun laying around. But I think the chance of a girl working an auto pistol are less than her chances of drowning in the swimming pool. Rubber bullets are a very bad idea. They won't save you when you need real bullets and they can kill kids who take one at close range.

My Ruger goes on the nightstand when I go to bed at night and into the gun safe every morning when I get up.

They make rubber buck shot. That I know of they do not make rubber bullets, per se. I have it in my "house gun" first shot is rubber buck, second shot is 00.

I too was raised in a home with guns, and 1 thing I knew, above all else was not to touch or go near them. If your kids are taught about fire arms, and what can happen (I.E. what you will do to them if you ever find out that they played or showed anyone else.) then you shouldn't have any problem. I did a lot of stupid things when I was a kid(hell, I still do) but never has anything involved guns. I agree with Rick that Rubber bullets are a very bad idea, but because if your kids friends are as stupid as you make them out, they are liable to shoot each other thing whey won't get hurt (the MTV show Jack-Ass comes to mind). which is why you need to take the time and teach them about the guns and what they can do. When I was young, all my friends had BB guns, my dad wouldn't let me have one as he said they were too dangerous, so for my 12th birthday, I got a 20 guage shot gun, and a Fire Arms Safety course:D
If you really love your kids you will teach them and their friends about guns and what they can do.

Worst a$s-whooping I ever got as a kid was for "mishandling" my bb gun. Gun safety was religion in my house.

+1000

Avon Calling

"First it was sonic ray guns. Now the Israeli military is "replacing its sometimes lethal rubber-coated steel pellets with compressed sand bullets," says the AP.

Rubber bullets have killed dozens of Palestinians in the past two decades. The new sand bullets were originally developed for close-quarter hostage rescue situations...

The new round, in which the head of the bullet is made from compressed sand and can be fired from a regular rifle, has already been used in the West Bank against Palestinians protesting against the separation barrier Israel is building, the army said.

The sand bullet, said to be extremely painful but less dangerous because it does not penetrate the skin, was developed and first used by Israel's Prisons Authority, the army said. The rubber bullets will be phased out.

THERE'S MORE: "I'm glad to see they are switching. It is LONG overdue," says Sid Heal, a long-time veteran L.A. Sheriff's department veteran who's considered one of the world's leading authorities on non-lethal weapons.

My guess is that the "sand" will provide sufficient mass to gain the stand-off distances they needed and obtained with their rubber coated steel pellets but with reduced ability to penetrate and imbed themselves into the body...

It sounds like a variation of the frangible rounds we've been experimenting with. It began with a round nicknamed the "Avon Round," that used Xerox powder and dental plaster. It remained intact until it struck an object -- and then it released excess kinetic energy by breaking into "dust." The breaching round got nicknamed the "Avon Round" because when it strikes a door lock, it pulverizes itself into harmless powder."

I haven't seen many posts I agree with.

Gun safes are nice, for the weapons you want to own but don't want to use for defense. Perhaps the ones that use biometrics for quick access would work in a home invasion scenario. I like the P7 suggestion where hand strength is required for operation.

If you're talking about rubber bullets- then guns aren't for you (right now at least). Guns are for killing. When someone enters your home un-invited you kill them. For your safety, for the safety of your children, and for society it's best to take them out. You don't want them in court anyways suing you.

Having children at home makes things interesting for sure. Glad you're thinking about it and seeking advice.

Personally, I will keep handguns accessible, but separate from fully loaded clips. All without too much work, but some assembly required. I'm hoping we'll have bio-metrics on guns soon affordably. Same for shotguns- maybe keep the shotgun under the bed, and the shells behind a curtain rod or something.

Can't agree with Hugh about moving. Criminals have cars and drive to areas less patrolled where the pickings are easier. Home invasions can happen anywhere.

Get another dog. Criminals hate dogs. I have a half Lab half Pit puppy who is slowly learning what's "normal" and what's not. Between her, the alarms, and the guns I sleep really well.

Thanks for the input.

I am not that paranoid and live in a very nice neighborhood. The nice neighborhood only minimizes the potential for bad stuff. Does not eliminate it.

I like guns, always have.

When I started having kids figured the safest solution was to not have any at all. EDIT: guns that is;)

Would like to restock but again my children's safety comes first.

Their friends intelligence is an unknown variable that can have drastic repercussions.

May just wait a couple more years.

Are you familiar with the "Gun Vault" posted earlier? It is designed specifically for this purpose.

Familiar yes, personally used no.

In a home invasion I think you'd barely have time to grab a firearm out of a drawer- much less open the gun vault. Still seems like it could be a good compromise with children present. I would still want to use one before recommending. I'll check them out at the next gun show.

Or who has one they want to send me? :D

I like your style. This is actually pretty smart. Rarely do accidental shootings involve multiple rounds.

For this reason the rounds in my chambers are FMJ (full metal jacket). After that first round things get more interesting.

Not that a FMJ is a "safe" round, but they will do less damage than the rounds thereafter.

So there's a good semi-solution I missed earlier for those with children. Use a non-lethal or even a blank as the first round. You'll want to double-tap a bad guy anyways so you'll hit him with the good stuff in short order. In a real situation you could always double-clear while arriving to the scene as well to get to the killing rounds. This could give away your position and intentions however.

I'd prefer to make a kill while they are unplugging my DVD player. ;) But, I'm a bit of a wuss.

See I'd try to get the guy into the bathtub or shower, easier to clean up afterwards.

Claim he was trying to steal my soap.

I have three gun safes and am looking for a fourth. I do keep my single-shot shotgun and an antique Remington Model 17 hanging on the wall, but both are designed in such a way that the action cannot be worked with a simple trigger guard in place. The single-shot opens by pulling back on the trigger guard. I keep the action locked forward on the Remington and the release can't be operated with the trigger guard in place.

When I have kids, I plan on keeping the firearms inaccessible until they are old enough to teach a healthy respect for them--and even then they will still be kept inoperable or inaccessible.

"I'd prefer to make a kill while they are unplugging my DVD player. But, I'm a bit of a wuss."


I'm afraid you would both have a lot of splaining to do if those were the real situations. Now if he "threatend" you with the DVD play or the soap...fire away.

The new DVD players have really sharp edges. Could make a fearsome weapon in a pinch!

Seems to me the first question is how will you be alerted to an intruder, the second question is how you will respond to it.

Alerting -

See if your house has an interior door that can be locked, so that the noise of breaking through would wake you up. For example, my house is three floors, the stairway from first to second has a lightweight door, I could replace it with a solid door and a sturdy lock.

Alarms and dogs are also options.

Responding -

A gun in a bedside safe seems adequately safe to me, as another dad with small kids (and their friends) around. As long as you are not the forgetful type who is going to walk away and leave the safe open.

If you just don't want to take any chance of an accident, perhaps you can look into a Taser, or two. With a baseball bat . . .

P.S. There are also fingerprint scanner gun safes. Might be the fastest to use. I would test the hell out of one, to make sure the scanner is discriminating enough.

Well then I'd undress and get myself wet, claim I was taking a shower and he came at me while I was picking up my soap:eek: That's gotta be defensible in any state.;)

I wouldn't worry about the fingerprint scanners being discriminating. The technology is pretty well advanced. However, I've used some of the fingerprint type door locks and they seem to be quite finicky. Some often require repeated attempts to get a match. So, IMO, they may not be as fast as the mechanical fingertip/tactile type locks.

Sounds like they would try you for a "crime of passion"!

Any time you kill someone you have some explaining to do. And rightfully so.

Here in Georgia, if someone is in your house stealing in the middle of the night and they're shot to death, they tend to side with the homeowner. All you need to say is he lunged, it was dark, I was startled. Heck- you could say he verbally threatened and that would be enough.

It wouldn't hurt that I play poker with a few local cops.