Black and/or white

[DARISC]

Observation:

A child conceived by mixed parents (black and white) is always accepted by whites as a black child (because the child is half black). And that child is usually accepted by blacks as a black child as well, even though the child is half white.

Put another way, a half white, half black child is rejected from being seen as a white child by whites, while that same child is almost always accepted as being seen as a black child by blacks (even though half white).

The implication seems to be, to be white, you must be all white (white’s perception) or you are black. To be half black is good enough to be black (black’s perception).

If this observation is true, the implication is that blacks are more accepting than whites, regarding racial bloodlines. Perhaps this is a function of being a minority, to increase the numbers of the group.

If blacks thought like whites regarding this, it would be tragic for children of black/white parentage, eh? To be both and yet be denied by both?

Ahhh, racism. Any thoughts?

[equality72521]

[john70t]

What about Southern Indians and Aboriginals?

[Dottore]

The following B&W chart should answer your question.

Notice that only the top line is what we would normally call white. But everything else you could properly call black.

Once again life imitates art.

[Mule]

Wtf?

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by john70t

What about Southern Indians and Aboriginals?

Same obversation applies, although seemingly to a lesser degree of general recognition than the "black and white issues" that have been predominant in this country and date back to slavery and the Civil War (one of my favorite oxymorons ).

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Dottore

The following B&W chart should answer your question.

Notice that only the top line is what we would normally call white. But everything else you could properly call black.

Once again life imitates art.



[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads12/bwcolorchart1200541972.jpg
[/img]

Interesting and applicable graphic - as an observation and opinion ("properly").

My question, re acceptance/rejection of mixed ethnicity children, was really only rhetorical and adjunctive - I still tend to think the basis of my observation is sociological and probably not easily objectively and logically analyzed.

[the]

Originally Posted by DARISC

Observation:

A child conceived by mixed parents (black and white) is always accepted by whites as a black child (because the child is half black). And that child is usually accepted by blacks as a black child as well, even though the child is half white.

Put another way, a half white, half black child is rejected from being seen as a white child by whites, while that same child is almost always accepted as being seen as a black child by blacks (even though half white).

Viewed by most as a white guy?



I think it mostly an appearance thing. If a person looks like a black guy, he's considered a black guy. If a person looks like a white guy, he's considered a white guy.

I know, that's adults. But I think it's the same for kids. If a person sees a kid that looks like a black kid (without the parents around), he's considered a black kid, and vice versa. If the mixed race kid is seen with both parents present, he's considered a mixed kid.

[livi]

Simple fact of the matter is that it takes much less black (than white) to look black (rather than white). 'Colored genes' have a more dominant expression.

But I also believe you are right on a social level. At least in a western society. Historically, the view on the black race is what it is. Although I think it works both ways in more homogeneous society. In central Africa I am not sure a half white would be as accepted in a completely black society.

[Jeff Alton]

I don't get this stuff.

People are people, politics aside. Color of skin should not dictate how we think. Yet politically it does, especially with some of the wannabee political figures in the USA.

I spent some of my childhood growing up in Africa. I am white. I went to an international school where the only black (colored or whatever the politically correct name is) folks were ex-pats.

However, at the golf club where white adults had black caddies, the kids all played together. We had a servant (pretty much a social requirement then) and his children played with me.

I live in a place now where we have pretty much every race well represented. We have folks from India, Mexicans, Europeans (all of the countries) Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, South Americans, and a very large Indian population.... You name it, we have it.

Now, maybe I am skewed having spent time growing up with other folks (where I was a minority) but I never see skin color when I look at someone, I also never hear accent. I think about people based on their ideas or actions and decide if they think like me or not. If they don't, that is good with me as everyone is different.

That said, I do find some here to be somewhat un-accepting of folks who do not look like them. That could be white folks, Asian folks or African folks. What drives me nuts, really nuts as a white guy, is that the white man is the only one who seems to get painted with the un-accepting brush (racist) at least where I live. While the other races escape this despite some outward racism displays by some.

Now, I agree that some white folk probably are, but so are some of every other nationality and race. That is a fact, and it should be undisputed. But where I live, that is the way it is.

Now, I think back to being a kid in Africa and remember this important thought/lesson. Black kids liked me, and I liked them. My five year old has a good mix of kids/races/nationalities in his kindergarten glass. He was thrilled to introduce me to "len" who is Japanese, because he has different things at his house and considers some different things important. He is also excited about "jack' and "carter" who look different than him. He looks at them and thinks they are kids who have different things going on in their up bringing and is excited about learning about it, just like I was when I was a kid.

So, after all my rambling, what is my point? Howcome as kids (without being told otherwise) we all are accepting? But as adults and politicians with agendas, that may change? Why? What makes brown, black or white folk change their view?

As another note. Lets say where I live some white folk may be tagged as "unaccepting". And lets say that some in our very large East Indian community may be tagged the same way. This is of course according to the media and each race may also think of the other race as unaccepting. (I am generallizing)

In this senario, I was lucky enough to be invited to an East Indian Wedding Anniversary party a few years ago. I kid you not, there was over 500 people in attendance. 8 Of us were white. 500 people is what I would consider a "fair" cross section of a community. Yet, we felt totally accepted and welcomed into the party as family. They treated us as if they did not see the color of our skin. Yet, according to generally accepted views, they should of been somewhat "stand-off-ish"

My other point? As adults, is color only percieved as an issue or is it an issue?? It maybe percieved here (to some) but my experience is quite the opposite. Are we more common in our thoughts than we think?? What makes some think that color has anything to do with it? Media, hype, political agenda?? Do we let a few loudmouths who like seeing their mug in the paper and hearing their voice on the radio influence us that much??

Maybe

I guess, if one thinks that way they are a sheep, and not a shepard. Are folks so concerned about what other in their "group" think that it clouds their own beliefs? Is society that in need of someone to tell us how color should affect our judgement? Not me, and I hope not you......


Rant over,


Gee, thanks David, you brought something up that has bugged me for a long time...

Cheers

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by DARISC

My question, re acceptance/rejection of mixed ethnicity children, was really only rhetorical and adjunctive - I still tend to think the basis of my observation is sociological and probably not easily objectively and logically analyzed.

In other words, it's not black and white.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Rant over,

Gee, thanks David, you brought something up that has bugged me for a long time...

Cheers

Rant? I don't think so!

No, thank you, Jeff. Very well put!
I honestly believe that if everyone had your understanding, experience, perspective and, most importantly, imbued their kids, as you apparently are, with your thoughts and understanding, the world would definitely be a better place.

David

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Dottore

In other words, it's not black and white.

Yes.

I think it's unfortunate that so few consider that, as in physics (regarding pigmentation and light), there is a broad spectrum between black (the presence of all colors in pigment) and white (the abscence of all colors in pigment) or black (the absence of light of any color) and white (the presence of all colors of light).

[Jeff Alton]

You are too kind!!

I have been fortunate enough to have grown up on both sides of the minority/race card. I consider myself lucky for that.

I do all I can to make sure my son in exposed to the same thing, luckily, a lot of it is readily available at his school and daycare and here in our local community.

The interesting thing is that my son does not need to be told to accept those who look different. I have tried to teach him to be accepting, but honestly have never mentioned "color" as part of it. As a kid he just knows that, as do most kids I would venture. That was part of my point, as kids we think/thought for ourselves about what mattered in others, as adults, we listen to too much other stuff and let in influence our thoughts.... HE knows right from wrong when it comes to right and wrong, but I try to never influence his observations and acceptance of others. We talk probably everyday about something related to differences, be it color or religion or what have you. But we talk, we try not to judge and we try to talk and understand why things are different for different people. Now, granted it is easy with a five year old. The differences somedays are as simple as the shape of eyes or skin color or what was in the lunch kit....

You see, my son Wade, has no knowledge of slavery, racism, terrorism etc. Therefore, he does not look at someones "apperance" and form a judgement based on the way they look or the way their voice sounds. The real challenge will be very soon, when we start talking and learning about history (and yes september 11th is history to a five year old) and try to understand/teach that color had nothing to do with it. That what was done was wrong, be it terrorism or slavery or what have you. I will try to do what my parents did, seperate the issue from all else. And to me, that is the key. Pretend you are reading it (with out reference to physical attributes) and not seeing it. See it through the words and actions and not the color.

Lots of white folk do bad things, lots of colored folk do bad things. Color has nothing to do with it. What you learned and were taught and are influenced by (and continue to be influenced by) is the difference.

It really is quite simple, yet incredibly difficult for a society to grasp....... The problem is made worse by folks who seek to gain an advantage (be it political or otherwise) based on the hand that they were dealt. To me, those who use their color/race to promote their agenda is truley sad.....




Cheers

[Fishcop]

If we don't all kill ourselves over the the next few millenia; the human race will interbreed into a nice milk chocolate colour with brown/hazel eyes, and they'll all wonder what the fuss was about...

[Sapporo Guy]

I thought white was a color?

Racism sucks!

I'm glad that Jeff stated nicely many of things that I feel the same about!

Thanks!

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

I thought white was a color?

In pigments, it's the lack of any colorant, black being all colorants mixed together.
In light, white is the presence of all colors of light, black is the abscence of all colors of light (no light at all).

Racism sucks!

Yup.

I'm glad that Jeff stated nicely many of things that I feel the same about!

Thanks!

..

[Sonic dB]

[The Gaijin]

In parts of this world, it would be "black, "white" and "colored". D - you observation holds true in America in 2008. I have a friend from Liberia, who because she is decended from re-patriated slaves (and assumed to be part white) - is not considered a "black African" by many of her countrymen.

The most maddening and complicated things I have ever come across considering this dismal subject is differences in color and class and resulting prejudices is within the Black American community. But as a card carrying white guy, I would not touch this subject asbestos gloves.

[Rot 911]

Interesting observations. I'm white, my wife is white. Can someone tell me how this happened? Is there something my wife isn't telling me?