Who will pay for the sin of murdering the unborn?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

So, here we are seven pages into this, and once again we see the same vapid distractions introduced by the pro choice advocates. Let's see; I can rattle them off easily enough.

A) If you are pro life, you assume the burden of adopting every unwanted child.

B) No one should tell a woman what to do with her body.

C) Supporting capital punishment leaves one morally at odds with opposing abortion.

D) All pro life advocates are delusional religious zealots.

E) Preventing a life from beginning (contraception) is no different than ending one already begun (abortion).

F) It's not really a human until ____ number of days (fill in your favorite arbitrary number).

I'm sure I missed a few. The point is, pro choice advocates are willing to discuss anything at all but the only point that matters - abortion ends a life. No ifs, ands, or buts. It's that simple. No matter how you want to pretty it up and present it, that is the sole purpose of abortion, isn't it? To prevent a human from being born? That is the intent, isn't it? I see that is an uncomfortable enough realization that the pro choice crowd will cloud it in any way possible, until we hopefully start discussing something else less uncomfortable. Like religion, politics, death row inmates, anything at all. Why can't you guys stay on topic with this one?

You missed only this one: "Of course it's the sanctimomious [sic] males making this argument. And, let's face it, they could care less about the emotional impact some woman might endure- they're just trying to impose their beliefs on others and using every argument in the book- from emotional distress to the farcical "murder" to do so."

Of course, all empty arguments start with, "Of course".

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Do you really think this is a valid argument?

You could certainly ask him to show the broad demand for adoption but to require him personally to adopt to validate the idea is beyond intellectually weak.

I don't think so. It is about personal responsibility (a popular topic around here) and putting your money where your mouth is. If you're willing to tell other people what they can and can't do, then you should be willing to personally deal with the consequences.

You can have these arguments in abstraction but I'm a big fan of actually figuring out the reality of the situation. Yeah, abortion sucks. But who's going to clean up the mess once you take that option away? I mean really deal with it?

What I see is a lot of men with moral indignation who want to dictate behavior but not be responsible for the ramifications.

God will sort it all out in the end. And I think some people are going to be in for a rude awakening. imho. ymmv.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

When has religion or pseudo-religious beliefs injected into the secular arena ever NOT been about power and control?

THINK.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Of course, all empty arguments start with, "Of course".

LOL

as for the sic, that m sured looked like an n to me. I might need to start using my reading glasses...

[Rikao4]

well we can always go back to the coathanger..correct that ..the ladies can go back to the coathangers.
abortions have been around forever..pro-choice gets you a clinic & Dr. , not your aunts best friends basement.
Rika

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

Who will pay?
Jesus did.

Great prayer there Craig (cgarr) - Amen!

Me? I'm just a sinner trying to make my way through this thing called LIFE.
Don't judge others, love them and understand that we're all in this together.

If you asked me to take a stance on the subject, I'd choose LIFE, but I'd have to admit that its my choice; not yours, Bills or anybody elses.

You've not accepted the doctrine of limited atonement?

[cairns]

".....that is the sole purpose of abortion, isn't it? To prevent a human from being born? That is the intent, isn't it?"

BINGO. I have no problem saying that. I don't think anyone who is pro choice does.

But I do have a problem saying it's a sin. I do have a problem saying it's murder. I do have a problem saying it's illegal. And I do have a problem when people start telling telling other people they can't do something because it's against their own beliefs. I don't care whether you're Taliban or Christian when you start seeking to control others- especially women- in this way you are, in my opinion, a sick bast*rd. When you use force, intimidation and fear to do so you're a terrorist. That latter description is not debatable.

It's not only their body it's their life. If it makes you feel better pray for them. Prosleytize if they want to listen to you. But don't for a minute think you have a right to tell them what to do. You do not. And (my) God willing, you will never again have that right.

I realize this makes no sense to overzealous morons who think they know what's best for everyone else. But there it is. I'm outta here.

[911Rob]

Limited atonement (or definite atonement or particular redemption) is a controversial doctrine in Christian theology which is particularly associated with Calvinism and is one of the five points of Calvinism. The doctrine states that Jesus Christ's substitutionary atonement on the cross is limited in scope to those who are predestined unto salvation and its primary benefits are not given to all of humankind but rather just believers.

I'm a believer if that's what you're asking?
Lifestyle evangulist actually.
Walk the Talk is my game.

Read "nostatics" posts, they're chalked full of wisdom that we can all learn from.
Abortion is really an extension of birth control. You want to have sex without the results.
It's all a sin. We're all sinners.
You can't get into the Kingdom through your good works, period. Only one way into the Kingdom and that's through the belief in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

How about we focus on saving some souls in our werks than debating about sin?
and BTW........ nostatic knows the truth, he just works his way around it.
God Bless him, he's a good soul with tremendous discerning wisdom.

[K. Roman]

As the question states, "who will pay for the sins", I thought about what that means.
But I don't really understand the "pay" part because what would be the payment besides guilt while your alive.

Sins on the other hand doesn't really mean much to me. I don't think I or anyone else will "pay" for "sins". Like let's take the ultimate sinner, Hitler. Does he pay more than the Dr. who aborted a baby?

[cairns]

Oh wait I'm back....I couldn't resist.

"You can't get into the Kingdom through your good works, period. Only one way into the Kingdom and that's through the belief in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.
"

You've gotta love the inclusive nature of Christianity. So the millions of Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. (those poor agnostics!) all over the world aren't allowed in no matter how much good they do?

You guys sound like Tom Cruise on amphetamines. But it is, of course, your religon. Just don't try to force it down my throat. Or anyone else's who doesn't subscribe.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

So, after 35 years who will pay for this sin of murder and war on the innocent?

I'll pay.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by cairns

".....that is the sole purpose of abortion, isn't it? To prevent a human from being born? That is the intent, isn't it?"

BINGO. I have no problem saying that. I don't think anyone who is pro choice does.

But I do have a problem saying it's a sin. I do have a problem saying it's murder. I do have a problem saying it's illegal. And I do have a problem when people start telling telling other people they can't do something because it's against their own beliefs. I don't care whether you're Taliban or Christian when you start seeking to control others- especially women- in this way you are, in my opinion, a sick bast*rd. When you use force, intimidation and fear to do so you're a terrorist. That latter description is not debatable.

It's not only their body it's their life. If it makes you feel better pray for them. Prosleytize if they want to listen to you. But don't for a minute think you have a right to tell them what to do. You do not. And (my) God willing, you will never again have that right.

I realize this makes no sense to overzealous morons who think they know what's best for everyone else. But there it is. I'm outta here.

What your ilk seem to be wholy incapable of grasping is that we are not telling women what they can do with their bodies. We are asking them to respect some one else's life - the one growing inside of them.

Are you really ignorant enough to lump all pro life advocates in with abortion clinic bombers and the like? Or does that image you have generated for yourself just make you feel like less of a monster for advocating the taking of innocent, helpless lives as purely a matter of convenience?

The truly sick bastards of our society are the ones who would hide behind endless euphemisms and justifications for this behaviour. They make every effort to deflect the focus from their barbarity by attempting to lump those who would make reasonable arguments agianst their selfish actions together with murderers and terrorists. It just doesn't work.

In the end, you are incapable of arguing your position without resorting to all manner of accusations and stereotyping of pro life advocates. We can all see that. The very core of your argument does not hold up under the most cursory scrutiny, so the shrill cries of "zealot" and "terrorist" begin. That's about as intellectually vapid as it gets.

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by K. Roman

As the question states, "who will pay for the sins", I thought about what that means.
But I don't really understand the "pay" part because what would be the payment besides guilt while your alive.

Sins on the other hand doesn't really mean much to me. I don't think I or anyone else will "pay" for "sins". Like let's take the ultimate sinner, Hitler. Does he pay more than the Dr. who aborted a baby?

I should clarify, I did not mean to open up a discussion on sotierology.

In a material sense this payment, or penalty could be the same as living with the consequences of our actions.

I'm not speaking about payment in theological terms that justify a sinner before God as I am using the word here to describe the direct result of a nation engaging in harmful, shameful, wrongful acts against innocent humans.

These acts of abortion deny the rights of aborted men and women. They are acts against those who cannot speak up for themselves and cannot protect their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

What are the results of our actions and inactions?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

What are the results of our actions and inactions?

I dunno. How many unwanted crack babies have you adopted? Let's talk about action and taking care of those that can't speak for themselves...

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by dipso

I'll pay.

You want the blood of 50 million people on your head? No, the point is these aborted people are people just like you and we have done them a great injustice. As a result we will suffer loss in ways we have not begun to calculate.

At the very least, we can honor the aborted dead today. Is it too much to be remorse and reflect on the millions of lives we are missing because of a great prevail of indecisive justice 35 years ago?

It's ruling resulted in an ongoing tragedy so horrific and on a scale so immense that I find it hard to grasp the reality. What have we done? What will we now face because of this?

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

well we can always go back to the coathanger..correct that ..the ladies can go back to the coathangers.
abortions have been around forever..pro-choice gets you a clinic & Dr. , not your aunts best friends basement.
Rika

That is what the antiabortionists do not seem to grasp. Legal or illegal it is going to happen. Yes I agree contraception is better but don't force unfortunate women into the hands of backstreet butchers. Until you can offer a serious solution to the problem of the backstreet abortions that are the inevitable consequence of stopping legal terminations, I don't think the matter even merits discussion.
You don't want to have an abortion? Don't have it, just don't dictate to others.

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

I'm a believer if that's what you're asking?
Lifestyle evangulist actually.
Walk the Talk is my game.

Read "nostatics" posts, they're chalked full of wisdom that we can all learn from.
Abortion is really an extension of birth control. You want to have sex without the results.
It's all a sin. We're all sinners.
You can't get into the Kingdom through your good works, period. Only one way into the Kingdom and that's through the belief in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

How about we focus on saving some souls in our werks than debating about sin?
and BTW........ nostatic knows the truth, he just works his way around it.
God Bless him, he's a good soul with tremendous discerning wisdom.

Limited atonement is not controversial. It is unlimited atonement that is controversial and has been since Pelagius.

[Isabo]

Doug you refer to aborted people. Says who?
In early pregnancy they are cells, then they develop into foetuses. They are people when they are viable independantly of the mother.

[nostatic]

no, as soon as the sperm hits the cell, it is a person. Period. You didn't know that?

And Doug is going to raise all the unwanted ones. Because he's all about personal responsibility, and he backs up his words with real actions.

[peppy]

I now know why this country is going to hell in a hand basket.

There is no value of life.