Who will pay for the sin of murdering the unborn?

[nostatic]

ur right. Seems the "pro-life" crowd don't give a crap about the kid once it is born. They just want to make sure it gets carried full term.

When I see people walking the walk, I'll respect their opinion on the topic. Until then they are just another group who want to tell others that they have to live according to *their* rules.

[Hawktel]

I think all the money pro-life people spend on fighting roe-vs-wade should be spent on better birth control.

In fact i think all food should come with birth control in it, and when you want to have a child you start taking a pill, both the man and the woman, that neutralizes it, and then you can have a kid.

[livi]

Most of you know this durn for'ner by now. I work with, live threw, breath children. Every day. I go out of my way to do what I can to help sick kids. I have four of my own.

Still, I am for a well informed, regulated abortion policy.

There are a lot of emotional, moral, ethical well founded arguments here on both sides. I wonīt add to them further. But I would like to stress something that is a fact. No matter what a society or part of itīs members believe or legislate - there has always been and will always be abortions. There are many developmental countries in for example South America with very rigid abortion laws. It does not lower the rate of abortions, it just makes them more dangerous for the woman. Not to mention the psychological and social stigma for the woman.

As I believe legislation does not change a global phenomena like abortion rates (no matter how anyone feel about it), I believe the next best thing is to take a pragmatic stance and give those woman that will do it anyway a fair chance to survive.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by livi

Most of you know this durn for'ner by now. I work with, live threw, breath children. Every day. I go out of my way to do what I can to help sick kids. I have four of my own.

Still, I am for a well informed, regulated abortion policy.

There are a lot of emotional, moral, ethical well founded arguments here on both sides. I wonīt add to them further. But I would like to stress something that is a fact. No matter what a society or part of itīs members believe or legislate - there has always been and will always be abortions. There are many developmental countries in for example South America with very rigid abortion laws. It does not lower the rate of abortions, it just makes them more dangerous for the woman. Not to mention the psychological and social stigma for the woman.

As I believe legislation does not change a global phenomena like abortion rates (no matter how anyone feel about it), I believe the next best thing is to take a pragmatic stance and give those woman that will do it anyway a fair chance to survive.

Well said, Markus.

I love children as well, and my Daughter is my "life".

Best,

Kurt

[tabs]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

Today I wear black in protest of a war within our borders and on the most innocent of life, the unborn.

35 years ago today, the Supreme court issued a confused verdict on the life of the unborn. It was a compromise on when life begins and has rights. The court agreed with both the plaintiff and defendant and made a terrible decision to split the difference in an arbitrary date on when the unborn human gains human rights.

So, after 35 years who will pay for this sin of murder and war on the innocent?

U have over 2000 posts on this Board and they havn't banned you yet?

[trekkor]

Originally Posted by nostatic

no, as soon as the sperm hits the cell, it is a person. Period. You didn't know that?

This is true. No matter how anyones wants slice it.


Honestly, do they ever become something else?


KT

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

For me personally, it was through a crisis pregnancy center 10 years ago and the lives of a white foreign student (Atheist) who ended up delivering a half black/white baby girl. The father was never part of the picture. Since then they have been apart of our lives whether babysitting, someone to talk to, or help with the American school system. The woman and girl have become part of our family in almost every way including Holidays, birthday parties, and just about every other weekend get togethers. It looks like now we will be attending her wedding this coming March. I can't imagine our life without without these two beautiful people.

I admire you greatly. You are probably the exception to the rule of how most of the more vocal pro-life folks act.

[dd74]

Pro-choice women currently have so much political power in the industrialized countries - like ours - I don't think anything/anyone could overturn Roe v. Wade, at least in our lifetime.

I also believe Roe v. Wade will only grow more difficult to overturn with future generations.

The life vs. choice argument is evolving into a moot point with influence going to choice.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

You want the blood of 50 million people on your head? No, the point is these aborted people are people just like you and we have done them a great injustice. As a result we will suffer loss in ways we have not begun to calculate.

At the very least, we can honor the aborted dead today. Is it too much to be remorse and reflect on the millions of lives we are missing because of a great prevail of indecisive justice 35 years ago?

It's ruling resulted in an ongoing tragedy so horrific and on a scale so immense that I find it hard to grasp the reality. What have we done? What will we now face because of this?

Yes , I'll take the blood of 50 million feti on my head. No they are not people like you and me, we had parents (hopefully) who wanted to raise a child.

A fetus is a parasite, by definition living off of its host.
A baby is a fetus after it has been expelled from the host and thrust upon the outside world. Without asking its approval of course. Hence the word thrust.
You could argue the umbilical cord thing but I believe until the fetus is outside of the womb, and life support system cut, it is not a baby.

[dafischer]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What your ilk seem to be wholy incapable of grasping is that we are not telling women what they can do with their bodies. We are asking them to respect some one else's life - the one growing inside of them.

Are you really ignorant enough to lump all pro life advocates in with abortion clinic bombers and the like? Or does that image you have generated for yourself just make you feel like less of a monster for advocating the taking of innocent, helpless lives as purely a matter of convenience?

The truly sick bastards of our society are the ones who would hide behind endless euphemisms and justifications for this behaviour. They make every effort to deflect the focus from their barbarity by attempting to lump those who would make reasonable arguments agianst their selfish actions together with murderers and terrorists. It just doesn't work.

In the end, you are incapable of arguing your position without resorting to all manner of accusations and stereotyping of pro life advocates. We can all see that. The very core of your argument does not hold up under the most cursory scrutiny, so the shrill cries of "zealot" and "terrorist" begin. That's about as intellectually vapid as it gets.

Your last paragraph decries the stereotyping of pro life advocates. But your first three seem to do the same to pro-choice advocates.

I have no dog in this fight, I'm just calling hypocrisy.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by trekkor

This is true. No matter how anyones wants slice it.


Honestly, do they ever become something else?


KT

Yes, they become a clot expelled during the cycle.
Should these women be charged with homicide, negligent homicide, murder, involuntary manslaughter or should miscarriage become a new crime against the unborn?.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by Hawktel

I think all the money pro-life people spend on fighting roe-vs-wade should be spent on better birth control.

In fact i think all food should come with birth control in it, and when you want to have a child you start taking a pill, both the man and the woman, that neutralizes it, and then you can have a kid.

" There should be birth control in the water. In order to get the antidote you have to pass an I.Q. test."
most likely misquoted but,
"Ted Nugent"

[WI wide body]

First of all, let's something straight. I really do not have a dog in this fight. I attnded for 8 years and grauated from a Catholic school but I do not agree with the infalability of ANY religion.

This obviously is an important issue to many people but it certainly will never be solved by either legislation or bombs or demonizing. Attempting to legislate personal behavior is a slippery slope at best.

There is one thing that I have never quite understood about the pro-life people. They often speak of protecting the "unborn" per abortion. What exactly is the definition of "unborn?"

What galls me the most is when this issue is made some sort of litmus test (either way) for our national political candidates. That is absurd and shows a distinct lack of perspective.

Like gay rights, abortion is so relatively unimportant to our nation's true problems that they should be relgated to their actual status. Any politician who makes these targeted issues key to their campaign is doing nothing more than pandering for votes. IMHO.

[berettafan]

nostatic i have never been so unimpressed by someone in OT. really. regardless of your opinion on this topic you have a LOT of maturing to do.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by dipso

Yes , I'll take the blood of 50 million feti on my head. No they are not people like you and me, we had parents (hopefully) who wanted to raise a child.

A fetus is a parasite, by definition living off of its host.
A baby is a fetus after it has been expelled from the host and thrust upon the outside world. Without asking its approval of course. Hence the word thrust.
You could argue the umbilical cord thing but I believe until the fetus is outside of the womb, and life support system cut, it is not a baby.

and what about a child who is exclusively breast fed for several months?

[dipso]

Main Entry:
born
Pronunciation:
\ˈbȯrn\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Old English boren, past participle of beran to carry — more at bear
Date:
before 12th century
1 a: brought forth by or as if by birth b: native —usually used in combination c: deriving or resulting from —usually used in combination
2 a: having from birth specified qualities b: being in specified circumstances from birth
3: destined from or as if from birth


I know the anti-choicers will not be able to answer your question. Most just repeat what they are told.
The answer is , in this case, Unborn=Unbirthed

[daepp]

I must say I've lost a little respect as well.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by berettafan

and what about a child who is exclusively breast fed for several months?

Breathing on his own.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

nostatic i have never been so unimpressed by someone in OT. really. regardless of your opinion on this topic you have a LOT of maturing to do.

really? how so? because I insist that someone who takes an incredibly offensive (to millions) and dogmatic tone practice rigorous consistency?

This is an emotional issue. And I know a lot of people who have been impacted by it. I have found that the hand-wringing and chest beating of the religious "right" to cause incredible amounts of personal damage. imho they don't give a crap about anyone but "the baby" and their own self-righteousness. I call 'em like I see 'em. My opinion.

And I don't live to impress you. Or anyone else for that matter. I agree with very little that you post here, so if you were impressed with me, frankly I'd be worried about my moral compass.

uh oh...I just made it worse, didn't I? I'll go say a rosary or something...

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by daepp

I must say I've lost a little respect as well.

Well thanks for telling me. Duly noted and I'll be sure to adjust my personal belief system based on your external validation. I'm not sure how I got along without it before.

I'm seeing the light! I'll wear black too! Luckily, I look good in black. Especially turtlenecks.