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-   -   Fuel Mileage: what are my choices. (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/390520-fuel-mileage-what-my-choices.html)

Macroni 02-01-2008 12:34 PM

Fuel Mileage: what are my choices.
 
I have got to ask. I drive a 2003 Discovery as my Daily Driver. It was my wife's and when she changed cars I took it over. It has been a very enjoyable ride which handled the mean streets of Philadelphia quite nicely. My issue is gas mileage. It is a PIG. This week I spent $140. on gas. I am considering making a change to an 30 mile per gallon economy commuter. I would still like some utility. I also would like some cool..... any pelican ideas? My view is to make the move while the discovery still has some value.

MichiganMat 02-01-2008 12:38 PM

I say you're looking at around $15K for your Disco. The bad news is that almost all of the sport-ute's and small trucks out there get around the same milage as your Disco (15-20mpg).

My suggestion: Subaru

The Gaijin 02-01-2008 12:46 PM

The era of the SUV is closing. Save the cool for the Porsche on weekends. Utility? Have have loaded my 2X lumber and bags of concrete mix into my corolla no problem!

nut11 02-01-2008 12:52 PM

Honda Civic HX (entry level version)? 40 something per gal combined, I think? Not a hybrid. Well built.

87 blk coupe

JTO 02-01-2008 12:58 PM

The choices are pretty limited when you are talking about utility and 30 mpg. Small wagons probably fit the bill. Cool factor with these cars is low in my opinion. But, if you can adjust your mindset maybe frugal, cost effective, reliable can be interpreted as "cool".

Kia, Suzuki, Scion, Mazda, and others make nice looking, well equipped small wagons that offer some utility for the occasional trip to the lumber yard, or garden center. A small trailer just adds to the utility. Most of these cars are rated at around 30 mpg highway.

If it were me, I'd buy an Acura RSX Type S from about 2005 or so. Fun to drive, well built, reasonable utility.

Troy

Macroni 02-01-2008 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nut11 (Post 3742420)
Honda Civic HX (entry level version)? 40 something per gal combined, I think? Not a hybrid. Well built.

87 blk coupe

Opinions of the Honda "Fit" 31/gallon combined or the Mazda 5 MPG @ 28/gallon combined.

Just disappointed in the mileage of both. I like the utility nature w/ Euro flare.

oldE 02-01-2008 01:19 PM

Before we got the Jetta Diesel, (50 mpg ;) ), we looked real hard at a Mazda 3S. Useful room with the hatch, good power with the 2.3l and handled very well. Downside for us? Only 35 mpg and a rust warrenty that was only 5 years vs the VW's 12 years. (We kept the last one for 12 1/2 years.)

Les

dan79brooklyn 02-01-2008 01:20 PM

BMW X3 with diesel twin turbo is coming in Fall 2008

450 lbs of Torque and 30mpg highway sounds nice

peppy 02-01-2008 01:24 PM

+ 1 diesel Jetta.

Macroni 02-01-2008 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan79brooklyn (Post 3742474)
BMW X3 with diesel twin turbo is coming in Fall 2008

450 lbs of Torque and 30mpg highway sounds nice


That would be perfect for my wife. She has a leased 525xi and wants a X3. She misses the height of the Disco.

Jetta and Golfs or Rabbits are on my list. I can't get my mind around the Prius except that it gets impressive mileage @ 60 / gallon!

JTO 02-01-2008 01:57 PM

I have had three water cooled VWs; two Golfs and a Jetta Tdi. The only one that was decent was the '86 Golf. The other two were in the shop 4 to 6 times a year. The Tdi was the worst in that it stranded my wife and me with our three kids on a busy road, on a blind curve. We nearly got hit by multiple RVs until a good Samaritan pulled us to a turnout. The car suffered from multiple glow plug failures, MAF sensor failures (two), wiring harness failures, window lifts, interior fell apart (literally the headliner and other trim bits just fell down). The only good I ca say is it got good mileage (circa 50 mpg) when it was running.

VWs have the worst reliability according to Consumer Reports. I recommend that you avoid them until they can fix their issues.

Troy

Joeaksa 02-01-2008 02:04 PM

Honda Accord is perfect for me as a pickup truck that does not look like a truck. Lasts forever and gets descent mileage as well as you can sell them anytime you are tired of it for 90% what you paid for it.

frogger 02-01-2008 02:09 PM

Mini Cooper S if the wallet will allow.

notfarnow 02-01-2008 02:34 PM

When is the Subaru flat-4 turbodiesel supposed to arrive in North America? That is going to be a BIG winner.

speeder 02-01-2008 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTO (Post 3742528)
I have had three water cooled VWs; two Golfs and a Jetta Tdi. The only one that was decent was the '86 Golf. The other two were in the shop 4 to 6 times a year. The Tdi was the worst in that it stranded my wife and me with our three kids on a busy road, on a blind curve. We nearly got hit by multiple RVs until a good Samaritan pulled us to a turnout. The car suffered from multiple glow plug failures, MAF sensor failures (two), wiring harness failures, window lifts, interior fell apart (literally the headliner and other trim bits just fell down). The only good I ca say is it got good mileage (circa 50 mpg) when it was running.

VWs have the worst reliability according to Consumer Reports. I recommend that you avoid them until they can fix their issues.

Troy

This what I've generally read online about newer VWs. What year was the TDI? Of course I want to hear someone tell me that they've gotten better recently, 'cause I really want to buy one. FWIW, my Mom has had 3 New Beetles since they came out w/o any major QC issues that I am aware of, but she trades them in w/o a lot of miles to get the newer/fancier one.

Luke, that LR Discovery is one of the least efficient vehicles ever sold in modern times in terms of dollars spent on fuel+maintainence versus what it returns in performance or cargo volume. Good off-road capabilities, (which 99+% of owners never use), but they burn fuel like a moving van.

The Prius is not a great OTR vehicle, (diesel is better and I like roadtrips), but as an around-town or commuter vehicle they are hard to beat, IMO. You will absolutely be driving the opposite of the Discovery, a super-efficient, cool modern technology car w/ TONS of room inside that returns arguably the most cool-factor and performance from a gallon of gas on the road. They've been selling them long enough w/ millions of miles travelled to ascertain their great QC and typical Toyota durability, and factoring in resale it is probably the cheapest new car in the world to own, at least among anything I'd actually drive. :cool:

speeder 02-01-2008 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfarnow (Post 3742592)
When is the Subaru flat-4 turbodiesel supposed to arrive in North America? That is going to be a BIG winner.

The waiting line for that would stretch around the world if it's a cool car priced right. And I'd be in that line. :cool:

Dantilla 02-01-2008 02:56 PM

I just bought a 944S for a race car project. Pretty nice car, with lots of room under the rear hatch. Much better on gas than my full-size truck.

I may use it as a driver for a while before turnong it into a race car.

Komenda Fan 02-01-2008 02:58 PM

Second hand Subaru WRX wagon or new WRX hatchback

Honda Civic/Fit

Mazda 3

Macroni 02-01-2008 04:05 PM

Thanks for the input......

It is hard getting rid of a paid for vehicle...mechanically the Disco has been great and for my family you can not beat the practicality. It was the perfect vacation vehicle. I just do not think gas is going to come down and I am trying to embrace smaller cars.

Pruis makes a ton of sense and has 4 doors but it has gotten a bit pricey
CooperS tons of cool but also pricey and not long on practicality
944s and 924s very cool great value but what kind of mileage?

Scott R 02-01-2008 04:14 PM

While not a winner in the "utility" category, our 07' A4 2.0T gets around 34~36 around town, and it sure does plow though the snow. All that and I don't have to drive a Honda.

nostatic 02-01-2008 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 3742768)
While not a winner in the "utility" category, our 07' A4 2.0T gets around 34~36 around town, and it sure does plow though the snow. All that and I don't have to drive a Honda.

you must only drive downhill. Around town I get 21-22mpg in my 2.0T A3. Highway I can get into the high 20's but I've *never* hit 30mpg. ymmv (evidently).

nostatic 02-01-2008 04:19 PM

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/01/subaru-boxer-di.html

Macroni 02-01-2008 04:21 PM

2003/04/05 S4 Avant......... utility w/ tons of cool..........mileage another story guess I could look at the 1.8Ts but they were a crap shoot.

Scott R 02-01-2008 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 3742770)
you must only drive downhill. Around town I get 21-22mpg in my 2.0T A3. Highway I can get into the high 20's but I've *never* hit 30mpg. ymmv (evidently).

Stays in sixth gear most of the time, really never breaks 40mph, almost two years old and it's only got 4k on it. I can post of pic of the of digital screen if you like. At 20 you're below the window sticker, have you had them check the car over? I ask because my Allroad does better than 20.

DanielDudley 02-01-2008 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantilla (Post 3742619)
I just bought a 944S for a race car project. Pretty nice car, with lots of room under the rear hatch. Much better on gas than my full-size truck.

I may use it as a driver for a while before turnong it into a race car.

944Ss get great gas mileage. Not S2s though.

SLO-BOB 02-01-2008 04:29 PM

Not saying I would buy one, but to answer the question, the Jeep Liberty diesel gets around 30 mpg supposedly. I believe there is a Ford-ish hybrid out there that gets good mpg as well.

I got stuck with a standard Liberty as a loaner once. Waaay too small for me. My buddies wife pulled up next to me at a stop in her Landcruiser and started laughing at me and pointing! I think Liberties ping the gaydar almost as fast as a new Beetle, but the diesel option gives it a few man points.

Beware the used Suby. Some of the Outbacks, among others, are notorious for costly motor issues. My b.i.l. hated his late early 2000s Legend as well. Not the "bomp-proof" car he was led to believe.

DanielDudley 02-01-2008 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Marano Jr (Post 3742746)
Thanks for the input......

It is hard getting rid of a paid for vehicle...mechanically the Disco has been great and for my family you can not beat the practicality. It was the perfect vacation vehicle. I just do not think gas is going to come down and I am trying to embrace smaller cars.

Pruis makes a ton of sense and has 4 doors but it has gotten a bit pricey
CooperS tons of cool but also pricey and not long on practicality
944s and 924s very cool great value but what kind of mileage?

Why get rid of a great vehicle that is paid for ? A decent second hand car that gets good mileage will save you enough that it would be cheaper to keep the Dicovery parked. But it would be there when you need it.

mikester 02-01-2008 04:30 PM

We've had a prius since 2005, it replaced my Xterra. I do radio control airplanes and it is actually easier for me to transport them in the prius than the Xterra with the way the rear seats fold down. I can even fit an 80" wing in there which I couldn't do in the Xterra really (not and drive at the same time).

Gets great mileage - almost 50mpg mixed use and so far at about 30k miles it hasn't been in the shop for anything. I change the oil myself and it takes about 10 minutes. I'm due for tires though...

nostatic 02-01-2008 04:41 PM

had the dealer check it. The sticker numbers are inflated unless you're driving downhill. Under 40mph in 6th gear? Well, if that works for ya...

Scott R 02-01-2008 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 3742811)
had the dealer check it. The sticker numbers are inflated unless you're driving downhill. Under 40mph in 6th gear? Well, if that works for ya...

Sounds like the time my wife put mid-grade in her's it dropped to low 20's with 91 it a very different story.

Macroni 02-01-2008 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielDudley (Post 3742796)
Why get rid of a great vehicle that is paid for ? A decent second hand car that gets good mileage will save you enough that it would be cheaper to keep the Dicovery parked. But it would be there when you need it.

My original theory when I purchased my 2nd 911.......

hytem 02-01-2008 06:39 PM

Anybody know of a hybrid with a stick shift? Seems like they're all automatic.

WI wide body 02-01-2008 06:59 PM

One of my neighbors was telling me that he gets a legitimate 40 MPG with his VW diesel.

On the other hand, it appears that our ever patriotic oil campanies and the government is rewarding the diesel drivers since after he mentioned it I noticed that deisel costs more than premium unleaded.

BTW can one of our resident oil experts tell us why diesel does cost more than premium gasoline?

1fastredsc 02-01-2008 07:03 PM

If you do a lot of city driving than a hybrid will shine. The brake regenerative system and a quick to warm up gas engine give it great city mileage. Diesels from my experience, owned one and worked on two others, do better on long trips and highways. I think part of that is because they take longer to warm up, and during warm up just like gas engines they take an extra shot of fuel. BTW, i'd wait until other manufacturers start bringing their diesels here because the VW TDI of late (1999-last year) is garbage.
Just to add, my MZ3 has been getting a steady 30-31 mpg since new, it's much nicer inside and to drive than it's price would have you believe.

Scott R 02-01-2008 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fastredsc (Post 3743070)
If you do a lot of city driving than a hybrid will shine. The brake regenerative system and a quick to warm up gas engine give it great city mileage. Diesels from my experience, owned one and worked on two others, do better on long trips and highways. I think part of that is because they take longer to warm up, and during warm up just like gas engines they take an extra shot of fuel. BTW, i'd wait until other manufacturers start bringing their diesels here because the VW TDI of late (1999-last year) is garbage.
Just to add, my MZ3 has been getting a steady 30-31 mpg since new, it's much nicer inside and to drive than it's price would have you believe.

I would be careful on that, my boss has the Prius with ESP and the braking system, he's trading it in after three months. His wife and newborn went through a stoplight twice now, absolutely no brakes. If you goolge it you will find others with the same issue. Dealer denies, but people are getting seriously hurt in them.

1fastredsc 02-01-2008 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3743058)
One of my neighbors was telling me that he gets a legitimate 40 MPG with his VW diesel.

On the other hand, it appears that our ever patriotic oil campanies and the government is rewarding the diesel drivers since after he mentioned it I noticed that deisel costs more than premium unleaded.

BTW can one of our resident oil experts tell us why diesel does cost more than premium gasoline?

The beetle TDI i used to have did 45 mpg on HWY10 going to work constantly at 75mph no AC. This was measured using the trip odometer and top off method so it's accurate. It was also modded with larger injectors, chipped with more boost, and had a bigger clutch to handle all the extra torque. If it wasn't for the stupid expensive parts, the terrible build quality inside, and the use of proprietary fluids i would have kept it.
Side note, if you do buy a late model VW diesel, stay away from the PD diesels. They require a very expensive motor oil or they destroy camshafts, the 99-2003 TDI's use a standard diesel pump and don't have that problem. Also stay away from automatics, the manuals last a lifetime if you change there fluid but the autos are known to grenade and are 5k new not including labor. Lastly don't get the beetle chassis TDI, or when you try to repair the damn thing, the clearances under the hood are so tight you'll have a lot of new scares on your hands. The Jetta/Golf platform has lots more room.

1fastredsc 02-01-2008 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 3743093)
I would be careful on that, my boss has the Prius with ESP and the braking system, he's trading it in after three months. His wife and newborn went through a stoplight twice now, absolutely no brakes. If you goolge it you will find others with the same issue. Dealer denies, but people are getting seriously hurt in them.

I've never owned one, just recommending it based on his common driving area (the city). Thanks for the heads up though.

Scott R 02-01-2008 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fastredsc (Post 3743099)
I've never owned one, just recommending it based on his common driving area (the city). Thanks for the heads up though.

Yea, sorry to quote your post. I was just shocked when my boss called me from the dealership today. I thought he had a one off issue until we googled it.

mikester 02-01-2008 07:48 PM

We've had a prius since 2005, it replaced my Xterra. I do radio control airplanes and it is actually easier for me to transport them in the prius than the Xterra with the way the rear seats fold down. I can even fit an 80" wing in there which I couldn't do in the Xterra really (not and drive at the same time).

Gets great mileage - almost 50mpg mixed use and so far at about 30k miles it hasn't been in the shop for anything. I change the oil myself and it takes about 10 minutes. I'm due for tires though...

Sapporo Guy 02-01-2008 08:10 PM

Fuel in Japan:
High octane: 91 -- 157/L
regular octane: 88 -- 147/L
diesel: 127/L

lolo, 30 yen off for diesel users.

subarus over here have bad reputations: oil leaks, a thingy a mig bearing problem, and low gas mileage:
5-7 km/L for turbos, 8-11 km/L for non turbos.

yes, prius
yes, most hondas
yes, surprisingly the family Nissans too.

GTR skyline gets about 6 km/L
diesel Surf about 6-8 km/L

my grand cherrokee was getting 7 km/L, my older regular cherrokee only 5 km/L ( I now drive a stepwagn by honda and get about 9 km/L)

diesel golf gets about 20 something km/L

I want a turbo diesel rabbit :)


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