WHY... I have a friend thats a retired Electrical Contractor that now acts as a project manager for home owners who build. I've seen the multimillion dollar homes hes done. He charges about $25 an hour which is dirt cheap.

Right now he has started a 5000 sq ft house in Claremont CA that will belong to the bald guy on one fo those home make over shows on TV. The materials cost will be about 1.2M.

I can empathize Milt. We do this kind of work quite often, and I will only do this type project on a time and materials basis. The possibility of unforeseen surprises is just too great to be held to a bid price.

This is a project that we are working on in Newport, RI currently. It's a mid 1800's carriage house that began to have some structural problems when someone cut the plates to put on the dormers around 1905. The walls on the second floor were 5" out of plumb in 4', and the corner posts of the port cochere were sitting on grade and had sunk 6" as the post ends rotted.

It was quite a convoluted repair, but it is now pulled back into place and stabilized. I usually come up with the plan of attack and then run it by a structural engineer who will sign off. I try to work with the same engineers on different projects, and I hire them with the billing through me.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202176831.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202176907.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202176964.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1202177272.jpg

Good luck with your project - it can be fun.

Hey Jim, I like what you did there.

Tabs, Spanish is not fugly and you're looking at the backside anyway. Whose a-hole looks hot to you to begin with???

I'll be back with some more pics. We got the floor joists in today and that is a major step in the right direction.

Project update
 

Well, 14 weeks and some very fickle owners along with a fickle engineer, we have this. Way over budget due to changes from the owners, a lack of proper initial survey by the project engineer and therefore SIX major engineering additions to the plans has definitely made me not want to ever do this again in my lifetime. The stack of changes is almost as thick as the original plans.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206988425.jpg

The fun stuff is just beginning like building interior archways and niches, but I'm so burned out that I've all but quit on them. I go up there on Saturdays and put in a day, maybe one day a week.

Here's a longer shot before the windows went in:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206988748.jpg

Milt,

is there a reason why it wasn't just flattened and rebuilt from the ground up??
it doesn't look like it was some kind of wonder of architectural design???

Hey,
"The world needs ditch diggers too." :D
http://pbpl.physics.ucla.edu/About_U...ler/smails.jpg

$hit Milt, that started with a 200' addition and Kitchen remod? When I was a kid in college and old contractor told me to always be real careful when you write a contract. Home owners always get pissed at the contractor when there's a change in price because someone forget something that must be added to the project outside of the scop of work we bid on. I always have the date and the architect's name in my contract. my bid is always based on that. No addendums. Owners knows that before thay start.

Thankfully you did not recommend the engineer or arch. to the home owner. I never trust them going under the house or crawl in the attic. If its a job that i know that's in the bag, I crawl through it myself. I don't recomend anyone anymore unless its a solid sub that we have been using for a long time. Like my plummer and painter. Those guys save my A$$.

I too love finish work, I start out as a furniture maker. one of my degree is in wood working and design from a local university that I was embarrass (who the hell major in woodworking?) to tell people about. I couldn't making any $$$ building furniture so I started building cabinets and ent. units. then remods. Most guys couldn't manage people , money and time for carp. They don't take the time to explain things to their clients, and that's the downfall for many contractors. Explaining don't make money, building does. I know that.

Are you making the cab yourself? Do you have a shop? I love to see them. Please post pics.

I used to do lots of jobs that last 5 days to a month. get in and get out. Now one might have sit on a remod job for some time as the finish work are far and few in between. I just finish the longest remod. in my life. I took 1 1/2 year. We completely rebuild a Greene and Greene (one of their smaller ones. still 5 bed rms) in pasadena. Drove my nuts it took so long. I had to deal with a designer that's not keen on Craftsman. Great designer for other proj, but I fought him every step of the way. West Side designer out of west hollywood. By the way, we met at one of the OC drives when you had the early black 911. I am the guy in the red turbo cab, not turbo cab mike.

Jeff

Milt, I like changes. It messes the whole thing up. As long as they are willing to pay for the change and addendums, then fine. We never take more then 2 projects at one time. Big one like that yours, I will only take one. I like to go home and spend time with my little ones. Up coming clients have to wait and are usually good about it. I take them to the job and explain to them about what's going on. Lots of PR work. I make sure the home owners know that's out side of the scope of work I bid on. Engineering addendum sucks. You have to undo a whole of stuff just to get at one thing. That's working backwards and lots of $$$. I usually come out the good guy, because I always stick to the job and come thru for them. I make sure they know that isn't me that made the mistake.

Are you doing many of the interior framing yourself? That's too much if you are. Manage and work will kill you.

Jeff

I'm hourly on this and most jobs unless the price of materials is a lot in comparison to the labor, like windows and doors. I find I can make some money on the product and make the labor look a bit more attractive. I still make a lot more money on a per job basis, but no one in their right mind would bid this job. Those that did try to price their part came in at ridiculous prices.

For instance, the fellow that installed the HVAC originally wanted 5000 to do this 200 plus 150 above sq ft addition. This included moving one under floor unit. I finally asked him what he would charge to remove some ducting so we could get in there and place a new under-the-existing-floor footing and stem wall. He said 800. I did it in 2 hours.

I went on to design a new plenum which saved the unit from being moved, designed the new branch system, bought the boots and ducting and did the whole shebang in 3 days with some help here and there. I saved my month's salary right there.

So, everything and everyone is T and M and we are/were saving money until the changes mandated by the jerk engineer and the optional changes by the owners (sometimes twice in 24 hours!!)

You guys are right about the education, but I don't have the patience any longer for this. It used to be that I knew just enough to impress an owner that I could do the job. I was willing to take the time. Nowadays, after 38 years, I know quite a bit and as I said above in the thread, I don't think today's owners are as wise. So, the gap between them and me is huge. It just takes too much. I have to either do simple work or work for people who know which way is up and can trust someone to execute the job. Few and far between anymore.

The best to work for are old money that have remodeled and built prior. They understand timing, delays, pick up (so they don't complain prematurely) and reasonable costs. That last also includes knowing when they are being gouged. Knowing the ropes is very helpful, but those kinds have all but disappeared on both sides of the tracks, both the homeowners and the trades. I just don't enjoy it any more.

BTW, I have done a lot of work on Arts and Crafts homes, but never a real G and G. I've toured 4 and love every aspect. I wouldn't touch one unless all of the above conditions that I need to work well existed beforehand. My forte' is Spanish or other period frame and stucco with interior plaster. Could even be post WWII.

But, from here on out, I think I'll keep to the simple side and just let my knowledge die with me as it has with so many before. Now I understand why this happens.

Oh man, Milt, don't say that. Knowledge is hard to come by now a days and plus the experience. One has to put in the time and get burn enough time to learn it. I love to talking to a bunch of old timers. Lots of info on how to and what to avoid. Not like the young punks that tell you they can do everything. I run from those. I still think that this country need "real" trades people. Especially in LA. That's why I have chosen to spend 3 hours of my day teaching woodworking at my local high school. I hope to get a spark started. It did with me 20 years ago.

My HVAC guy does the same **** with me on the G and G job. Charges my 250 bucks to move a duct. He got done in 1 hours. I could have one of my guy do it, but that will slow them down on something else. I try to budget and always give the owner a breakdown for everything. Even Hauling trash. Sometime overpaying can save a job and complete it on time. This proj cost the owner 400k. He got a good deal and he's really happy. If he's happy, I am happy.

I know a few good contractors. They are also on their out and sound pretty tired of dealing with all the crap you have mention. I have another 15 - 20 to go. I am getting tire of the freaking designers and some architects. I did 80% of the wood work during the remod on the Chemosphere off Mullholland, I think 8 years ago. The architect fires us because I refused to listen to his crap anymore. Hopefully I can pass on some knowledge to my guys so they can keep on trucking. I hate to see this industry go completely to $hits. I think it already there and I am just playing in it. Good luck and let see some pics.

Jeff

+1

:D

Jeff, prefab is on the horizon. That will put some quality back in a home even if the workers don't know that much. Remodeling will die its own death mainly due to building departments. I don't know of too many people that will go through the trauma of a major remodel twice in their lifetime. Some will either because they got lucky, it was a long time ago since their last project or they thrive on the hassle (some people actually do thrive on the hassle). I know this is true for people that commission a custom home.

The biggest factor that will eliminate the craftsmen (and women) from the business is the ever decreasing wages, the insurance and other operating expense. I have to tell people that to put 45 dollars an hour in my pocket for my use even including my small overhead, they have to pay me $75/hr and that doesn't apply a dime to any retirement or health care.

$75 ain't gonna happen with anyone I've ever worked for. I don't gravitate towards real high end projects for the rich and famous because I've never met a R&F person I didn't think was a jerk. If I'm gonna spend all day with someone, I better somewhat like them and their lifestyle. That's why I seem to find jobs at historic homes. People are involved with the home and its care. I'm for that. Most homes are lived in by dozens of owners. Don't screw it up for the next guy.

These Malibu types partially take down a perfectly good home and rebuild it as something else entirely; usually not for the better. That's work but not accomplishment. I have some principles (actually quite a few, which is more old school).

EDIT: Actually, what I said was not true. I have not met any rich and famous people, just rich that thought they were famous.

They's been talking pre fabs for a long time. Its out there but not many around here. If there are I haven't notice any. just a bunch high rise condos and large tracks going up.

We have the new kids, or young people (30s) who grew up here with immigrants parents who didn't demand that much. Now they are out working, and don't demand that much so they are cutting everyone's price juct to get work. Many are not very good business people. No insurance, lic, etc.. They will work for 30 bucks all day long. That's going to put the rest of us out of business. Thankfully most of them do rough work. That's why I don't even look at the regular jobs anymore.

We have done a good few homes for the Hollywood crowd. Most are ok but I have had my days with the butt heads. For the most parts I just deal with the arch or designers. They have no prob spending their money. I really like working on the older homes for the upper middle class folks. They really care about their place and usually tastefully done. More importantly, they listen and work with you and don't have problem paying for good work. The Greene and Greene proj was a joy to do. This is our 2nd proj like that together.

I been doing lots of thinking and research. Buying property and rehab them for sales is the way to go in this town. I used to design remod kitchens and baths. I still think there's a little bit of money left in those projs. Home Depot kill the lower middle end market with a bunch of garbage. Now the Chinese import is making it worst. TI work on offices in highrises maybe the way to go. That kind of work is just work and no fun. I have little kids and I wonder what are they going to do to make a good living in this country.

Jeff

You guys just need to go where you are appreciated. My father in law is the craftsman type, been doing remodeling his entire life. From furniture and cabinets to framing and concrete, he does it all. Typically has about a one year backlog, and that's in rural central KS. Never advertises, but word of mouth is very powerful. Contractors that take pride in their work are becoming very rare, that makes the true craftsmen really stand out.