That's just it. It's not a waste of time for the bricklayer or the plumber. It can be an end in itself - completely and entirely unrelated to the pursuit of their chosen profession.

I'm saying go to college for the education. Don't think that the sole purpose is to get yourself a job. That narrows the field a bit too much for me.

Sorry to so disrupt your thread shaun.

Internship is a great idea, as is Robb's comment about working before going to college.

IMHO, the best thing I did in college was work...first as a busboy, then waiter and then as a bartender. I learned a lot, gained a large measure of perspective and could afford beer pong;)

boys, boys, let's get back on topic here.:cool: some great advice so far, wish I had it myself. keep it coming.

I understand what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree. It just doesn't make sens to go to college (at all) if your employment requires you to be indentured to your education for 10, or 20 year after you graduate and eats up most of your income.

When I graduated in 2000, I had $12k in college debt and my monthly payment was $150 dollars. I was making $40k a year at the time. I will have the loan paid off this year. (8 years.)

My sister's friend makes $50k a year (and pays no income tax) and has $90k in student loans. If he paid his student loans, his monthly payment would be roughly $1200 a month! :eek:

Still, he thinks its a better deal to let us taxpayers absorb the cost of him becoming educated.

Hey Mike,
I'd think that your way of thinking is most likely the majority thought out there too? From what I see in the Canadian Colleges anyway.

My opinion comes from mainly my own kids, (two out of the nest, and one in grad year, with two following) and some close personal friends/family kids. Point being; "If I'm paying for the education, it's gonna be by my rules" point of view.

Appreciate your point of view though, but if my kids want to get educated without having a job or end result as the goal, they can do it on their own nickel.

Peace,

Everyone should do it on their own nickel. Otherwise you don't have any skin in the game.

You know I don't mind paying, but it'll be by my rules.
No one paid for me; but what'ya gonna do?
My kids are silver spooners man and I sure wasn't one.

My mom still says, "Oh Robbie, he always wanted what the rich people had"
Guess I did.

I disagree with this statement. My parents always told me if I got the grades and could get into college, they would pay for it as long as two things happened: 1. I kept my grades up and 2. I kept a part time job (in that order of importance)

I think this is one of the greatest gifts parents coule give. I got my engineering degree in 5 years, had multiple $55k/year offers 2 months before graduating and started off in the real world debt free. I cannot thank them enough for doing that for me. I know damn well what a commitment that was for them and how much it helped me being debt free.

I will return the favor to my kids with the same rules if possible....

I always hated getting grouped in with some of my less ambitious friends about "kids these days don't know the value of a hard earned dollar and the importance of education" I do, and am deeply grateful for my parents helping me out.

I will also say I agree with people who say don't waste your time with a BS degree. With the very few exceptions of people who have a specific purpose of getting a certian fluff degree, its a waste of time and money.

At my college, there were degree's like Recreation and Leisure, art history, psychology, and communications that are 99% worthless without an advanced degree. This is not coming from me, but from people within those programs. The jobs just are not there. So many people major in those fields that when it comes to choosing a candidate, the employer usually has 3-4 to choose from with Masters/PhD's that its almost impossible without one.

Worst case is my best friends sister who went to SDSU and graduated with a degree in communications 6 years ago and still works for REI in a lower level management job she would have gotten without the degree. She has been consistenly trying to get a job in communications for the entire 6 years, but nothing is out there. When one pops up, she says they are flooded with resumes and its a long shot at best. She is stuck trying to pay off student loans for nothing and wishes she never went. Pretty sad if you ask me.

My advice is college is not for everyone...if you decide to go, have a plan for what you want to do. Its way to expensive for "um, I'll just go and see what interests me and maybe I'll find something"

The one thing that I can tell you for sure is to NOT do what I allowed our youngest daughter to do: Get a degree in Art History.

BIIIIIIG waste of time and $$$$$.

What you get out of college is directly proportionate to what you put into it. I think that this is more important then the reputation of the school. In my book it's better for him to go to a "no-name" school and get a lot out of it, then going to Yale or Harvard pi$$ away the time.

In that light, find out what sort of school fits the potential Freshman's personality. Some people respond better to Big, others to small. Some to City schools and others to schools out in the stix. Getting a useful major is key. Nothing wrong with something like film, but if he hasn't spent the previous 18 years of his life doing everything he can to make movies, he's most likely wasting his time in a major like that. The same applies to any of the Arts, such as music or performance -- if he really hasn't demonstrated an all-encompassing desire get ahead in the arts, it will most likely wind up being an expensive waste of time.

That leaves still leaves a lot of fields. If it was my daughters (which it hopefully will be on day) I'd encourage them to get an education that will help them get into a "new field". When I was younger, that was Semiconductors. After that it was Bio-med, then Bio-Phar, health care and next will be....? If he can get himself into a "young" field like bio-fuels, there will be many interesting jobs and few qualified applicants for many years to come.

None of this is particularly helpful in a tactical sense, but I've always been like that.

Good luck!

Out of curiosity, is he going to play lax in college? If he goes to Harvard or Brown, and plays for 4 years, that'll be a huge part of his life, both timewise (40-60 hrs/week for the spring semester) and as part of his social support/environment. That's perhaps even more important, if he doesn't have Mom and Dad.

I had a dormmate junior year who was an orphan. He had extended family, but both parents had passed away while he was in highschool. I never really brought it up with him--partially because I didn't really know what to say. But to a certain degree, I always wondered how he felt during those times where everyone goes home--Thanksgiving, Christmas, even those 3-day weekends--and he didn't have a mom and dad to go home to. It's not the same, going to an aunt or uncle's house. At least, it wouldn't be for me. It wasn't so much the actual act of going home. I went to school 3000 miles away from my parents, so it's not like I ever saw my family other than Christmas, Spring Break, and summer break. But, rather, the knowledge of having a place to call home.

I don't know if that offers any advice on what you should say to your nephew when you see him. But wherever he goes, it's something to remember to consider (for you as a family member) for the next few years of his life before he settles down.

Personally, I think Boston is a great college town. But he's also got to find a school where he's happy, first. And for those who view college as purely a financial tool for furthering of future employment and earning potential, I think you're missing a big part of the college experience. At the same time, I recognize that college isn't for everyone.

Plenty of advice so far.

For me, college was the time of my life. Made tons of friends (20 years later and I still see 5 or 6 of them) had more fun than is legal and learned a little.

Animal House fits better with my experience than Back to School.

Good Times!

As a current college student who is writing this from my dorm room I might have some advice for him.

First off is unless he knows what he wants to do right out of high school, which he probably doesn't don't waste your time taking major specific courses freshmen year. Take gen-eds and dabble in everything you can during your first year. Get to know your teachers and tell them the situation your in and if there department is a good match for you career and interest wise.

Second is to realize that once you get a master degree, if he intends to, your undergrad school doesn't matter all that much. Some of the schools you have mentioned could leave him with close to 200k of debt if everything is done with loans. 200k of debt for a piece of paper that claims you accomplished something. The best decession might be to do go to a state school and do really great and then go to the really great schools for a masters and PHD.

Also while your on the tours find out about the social life of the school. What do people do on weekends? Drink, study, go home? Having gone to two schools for my undergrad i've had two very different experiences, one where the major activity on the weekend was getting trashed and the other where no one is around and you find other ways to keep yourself occupied.

Also try to get an impression about the school from people who aren't the tour guides. Think about it, there getting paid by the school to make it look good. Talk to some students, find out about the professors and other aspects of the school.

Where he wants to go to school is also important. Does he enjoy outdoor activity or being in the center of a big city. This choice can be as important as the school itself.

+1 Engineering of some type, chemistry, or some other similar field.

The best thing that any young kid can do that will make them realize the value of an education is to join the military for a 3-4 year tour. Once out they realize that they do not want to dig latrine's, sleep in a foxhole nor do manual labor.

Too boot the go in a kid and come out a man or woman.

As well they have the GI bill to help them with the cost of college.

lPractical pointers I gave my step son:

1. GO TO CLASS. EVERY CLASS. EVERY DAY.

2. College is not High School with ashtrays and kegs. This is your transition into the real world.

3. Treat college like a job. Spend 8 hours a day doing something related to your school work, be it going to class, reviewing your notes, studying, preparing for the next days classes, organizing your notes, etc. That leaves 8 hours for partying and 8 hours for sleep. If you spend 8 hours a day monday thru friday on school work you will rarely need to crack a book on weekends.

4. Get to know your professors. Introduce yourself, make an appointment to meet them away from class. Even if they're boring and stupid. Offer to buy them a cup of coffee if you see them in the union. It'll make a big difference if you need to reschedule an exam or are on the cusp of an "A." Or a "C."

5. Its one of the rare chances you'll have in life to "reinvent" yourself if you feel the need. Most freshman should feel the need.

6. Bust you azz in your freshman year to establish a scholastic reputation. If you show up on Presidents'/Chancellors'/Deans' lists in your freshman year life will be much easier in the next 3.

7. College is not just an academic education but a social education as well. But keep a balance of the two.

8. Make new friends. But keep in mind at least one of your friends at EVERY given moment of the day or night will have something they want you to do with them that is far more fun than completing your Calculus assignment or History research paper. Get the assignment done and then party your azz off.

9. Get on a schedule. Get up every weekday at the same time. Even if your first class isn't until noon, get up at the same time everyday.

Good list Dueller.

#6 is especially good. I have a lesson I teach to my kids along those lines.
Good book on the subject, I think it was titled, "Positioning"

#2 is funny. You're a funny guy Dueller.

I can't buy into #3 though, my studies involved a ton of 16 hour days and plenty of weekends.
Saturday nights were always for partying though; big time.

Dueller, that's an awesome list "in hindsight" :)! Can't say I followed many of them to the letter back when...I did well in school, yet still had the time of my life. Good advice...

Thanks, guys. As far as step son goes, based on his senior year in high school we figured he's be at the JUCO within two semesters. But we gave him a chance, let him make the decisions about where he wanted to go, what he wanted to take. We offerred observations about his choices but never tried to influence him...just told him we'd suppport whatever decisions he made re: college as long as we felt he had made informed decisions.

Things looked a little touch and go at mid-term but he assured us he had it under control. His mom made it perfectly clear that she would make whatever sacrifice necessary if he was serious about college but that she wasn't paying for a party. A tall order since he was attending one of the universities known for partying.

He was at a university with 7 of his friends from HS. 6 flunked out. His roommate made a 3.5 gpa. He ended up with a 3.4 and po'd his roomie had a higher gpa. We were stunned. He says he's shooting for a 4.0 this semester now that he's got it figured out.

We were pleasantly suprised to say the least. Looking at his emails and such, he was on a first name basis with all his professors. Even in classes with over 200 students. And the really good thing about it is that he has developed a new sense of pride in himself and what he can accomplish on his own.

Hope it wasn't a flash in the pan.

I want to mention a couple other things that are not always talked about. one is that community college (2 year schools) are a waste of time unless you are getting a degree from that school. I have been told numerous times about such and such going to a community school then going to a 4 year school and having to start over because the 4 year school wants you to take their courses.

Also, check out the program he/she is interested in at that school. Where are they ranked nationally?? Does the program require co op or is it mandatory??

Good luck.