Sure, it will works. But most won't work well. For example, a windows based 3-d engineering program like SolidWorks (www.solidworks.com) will run emulated . . . with a performance hit of ~50% ... and with graphics that look like hell.

Clearly, Apple want's to prop up the notion of Windows apps running well on the Mac OS. .. but that is just not the reality.

I'm sure I speak for everybody here when I say:

"We're very happy for you!"

SmileWavy

Who said anything about an emulation program?

How many times do we need to tell you? :)

It's not "emulation" - it's "virtualization". There's a huge difference, especially on software that runs on the same hardware with the only difference being the OS like most PC vs. Mac situations.

Maybe you'll get it this time? :)

Source: http://blog.1530technologies.com/2006/08/virtual_machine.html


Seriously, you guys need to back up your anti-Mac dogma with something solid.

Best,

Kurt

Dollars for starters. Mac prices are ridiculous. So a Mac notebook edges out a Dell by 1 point & how many dollars? Accessories are extremely limited compared to a PC & often twice the price. Repairs (yeah , I know they survive nuclear blasts) are ridiculous because everything is proprietary. And what does all this money buy me, in addition to the coolness?

Mule, 10 years ago you would have been right.

The inside of a Mac is about the same as the inside of a PC these days, even the Intel chips. I do not know of any proprietary parts in a Mac; if you do I would honestly be interested to know what they are.

Macs and PCs are price about evenly when you go feature for feature.

What accessories? Macs have USB and Firewire like PCs, and run most periphs that PCs run.

The Mac vs. PC debate should really be focused on OS X vs. Windows because that is where the material differences are, IMO.

Best,

Kurt

Not correct.

Correct!

You know what's always irritated me about the whole "Mac vs. PC" thing? PC stands for Personal Computer, which is what a Mac is as well. Primarily, PC means Windows computer, so why couldn't they of just said "Mac vs. Windows"? Sad thing is, I've been saying this since 1995.

Meh.

Stupid.

Are you going religious on us now? :D

Best,

Kurt

See not so hard to agree with me.

So your best guess is that Mule is only about 10 years behind the curve?;)

Correct.

I'm a Mac convert, made the switch about 2 years ago. I am conservative, have 3 kids, go to work everyday, have never hugged a tree in my life and eat meat on a daily basis.

I am considering voting for Obama over McCain tho...GASP...it must be the MAC!!!!

So all pc accessories work on Macs now too? You may have me here because I wrote off Macs years ago. If this is accurate, which I haven't seen, it's pretty damn recent. I've been using computers longer than some of you have been alive. My original statement was absolutely true for virtually all of that time. If Apple has finally decided to stop drilling their customers, that doesn't incline me to run out & get one.

Nah, you're okay N-Dad. My youngest son got into Macs back in the 1980's at SIU. He ended up a computer graphics designer (mostly in advertising) and he's an agnostic (even tho he graduated from a Catholic HS) who is somewhat of a social lib (but who disdains politics) and a few years back he was participating (to his mother's horror) in ToughMan contests!

So compared to him you are abnormally normal!!

not really. I never knew of accessories for Wintel machines that would not connect to a MAC. What accessory was it?

Repairs are virtually non existant on a MAC and easily done if needed. Except for recently, Wintel machines were basically a piece of crap. The back room was full of hardware that broke down, monitors that crapped out, etc within a year of getting the newest 386 machines. That is when I bought my first MAC and it lasted years longer than the 386 was ever used at work. BTW, I first started programming in 1965.


Short term thinking led many to buy wintel machines.

Steve, respectfully, for most of the Mac's lifetime, software availability was MAYBE 10% of that available for a PC. Second, I don't know what kind of machines you were buying. I was in the network business for about 12 years & laser printer supplies & service for another 15. PCs are reliable. A power supply here & there, maybe HD or a video card, but that's about it. Don't tell me Macs don't have these problems. I know better.

If now, Mac has made what amounts to a PC & put their operating system on it, hurray for them. That doesn't make up for 20 yrs of such severe limitations & gross overpricing. Don't believe me? Look at the market. Apple doesn't have 5% by accident.

The other 95% is so... ordinary. ;)

Mac=Starbucks. Over hyped, not that good compared to real quality.

Starbucks tastes like Battery Acid.

That video actually looks like a lot of urban Seattle's under 35 crowd - to a tee.

rjp

Nah. Mac is more like Peets. Windows is like Chock Full 'o Nuts.

I'd like my next laptop (1-2 years away) to be a mac, but in order for that to happen, it will have to price out within $150 of a similarly spec'd tell. When I got mine 18 months ago, my Dell was over $300 cheaper than the very similar MacBooks that all my friends got. So far everything has worked out for me.

The other thing I dislike about Macs is the keyboard. I really don't like how it is flat, I wish it had some definition between the keys, although I suppose I would get used to it over time.

It really is pretty simple.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1203976219.jpg


or...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1203976242.jpg

Mule, I have heard the software argument for 15 years. For work related stuff a MAC was and is fine. Lockheed was all MAC for general work until they were consumed by Martin. CAD was done on SUN or some other special workstation computer.

The problem that plagued wintel machines, 386, 486, etc., was the lack of uniform hardware specifications, like the MAC had. The IT guy would try two different HDs and then two different HD driver boards until he could find a pair that would work together. That same issue continues now. I had an IBM laptop two years ago for which I had to spend two weeks back and forth with IBM Software group to finally find the right patch to make the IBM wireless card work. Ridiculous.

Note, I try not to call wintel machines "PC" as in reality Apple created the first personal computer, PC, but lost the marketing logo to IBM.

Over the life of the computer, the cost per year is less on a MAC, always has been, always will be. The quality is built in.

What Apple has done is switched to Intel chips. The current MACs can run the best PC OS, MAC, or run XP, and Vista better than on wintel machine. You deserve it to yourself to take another look.

Mule = Yawn. bababababababababababababababa

Actually they have 6.1. Right behind Gateways 6.4 and ahead of every other PC manufacturer sans Dell and HP.

A huge chunk of Dell and HPs 20+ share comes from supplying corp america with servers and run of the mill desktops for the workers.

Apple and the others do not compete in that category so it's an unfair comparison.

It's like dinging Porsche for their lack of market share in the front end loader market. Can't count it f they don't compete in it.

Yeah, all those PC's and Microsoft stuff was soooooo reliable and trouble free.

It is quite evident that the reason MACS are less than 10% of the "PC" market compared to Wintel machines is the numerous low cost and cheap machines issued by too many "PC" manufacturers, i.e. garage assemblers, that saturated the market with cheap machines in the 90's. Wintel bought the market place. The momentum was huge and businesses bought poorly made wintel machines for many years based upon short term fiscal analysis.


That is also a commentary on MS, Bill Gates. He is in business for the buck, first, last and the only reason he went into the business. Quality doesn't even come into the picture.

My computer smarts are just about equal to Mule's Super Bowl knowledge but my kid insists that if not for the Apple guys there would be no Billy Gates empire today...or if the Apple guys had known how to take control of the market as did Microsoft. That's his opinion.

So, Mac'ers: My son starts High School next year and wants a Mac/Apple laptop, which one do you recommend?

I have absolutely nnooo dog in this fight. I think computers are essential in HS so he gets one just like his older sister...she wanted an HP, he doesn't.

Since DoD is MS, I've always gone that route so I know nothing about Macs.

Now, MacDonald's, I'm good to go.;)

ANY Mac laptop will do what he needs. The only software he'll need is the Microsoft Office suite. I've heard that it can be downloaded, free, at Limewire.

Actually Bill and Steve used to hang in the same circle and were a bit more than just acquaintances.

The "Big Bang" for Microsoft was due in large part to a critical mistake by IBM.

Apple pretty much owned the PC market at the time. IBM wanted a taste of it. Macs were proprietary as was the OS. No opportunity to reverse engineer it.

IBM rushed out a box built with off the shelf chips (mistake 1, see reverse engineer) then went shopping for an OS which they got through Bill.

Mistake 2 was IBM's position that the OS did not matter, it was about the hardware so IBM licensed the OS from MSFT instead of buying it outright.

That left the door wide open for knock offs (enter Toshiba) that ran the same OS as IBM's boxes and by extension the same applications.

The rest as they say is history.

http://www.apple.com/macbook/ is all he will need for many years to come. It will also run most if not all wintel specific code that a school may require for use.

In addition, he can use it for 2-3 years then sell it for 50-70% of what he paid for it. Not kidding.... one of the benefits of Mac ownership :)

Seahawk - my Daughter (9yo) has a MacBook that I got her a bit over a year ago; she's an ace on it. She's rough on the machine and it has survived and has not required any service. She does her own software updates and gets around the file system very well. She can also make a slideshow, movie and even create songs on Garage Band and has her own website created on iWeb.

Her school is also all Mac, so the choice was even easier for us.

On the superficial side, none of her friends get excited when someone gets a new PC (Windows). :)

Best,

Kurt

Steve, I was there. The only reason Apple even exists today is that they used to give them away to schools in hopes that on graduation, the kids would continue to use them. The better clones "garage machines" were as reliable as any Mac ever built. Spin it how you like. I'll help, 94.9 percent of the market is not smart enough to figure out what you all did. I'm done.:)

Can you elucidate on this please? They certainly never refer to it in any of the articles I've seen.

We just got the a Macbook Pro and I feel 10 years younger, I've added 15 yards to my drive and I can eat spicy food again!

Highly recommended.

Improvements in both length AND girth, too?

Best,

Kurt :cool: