Racism: When is an observation racist?

[tiwebber]

I just finished reading Tony's thread on White Girls that only date black men. I've never heard of this before but its a big world out there. Some suggested Tony is a racist because of the content in his post. I think the post was in poor taste but racist? Really? There were lots of words in his post but in essence he asked, "My only question is what is the fascination with white woman are they really that easy?". To me, that seems like an observation rather than prejudice or negative descrimination. Why is this comment racist?

Here's another similar question or observation. Why are there fewer white people (say per capita) in the NBA? What about hockey (this one has some good answers)? I remember having this conversation with someone I worked with (long time ago) and simply because I made presented these observations, he called me a racist. I'll never forget that because I dont consider myself to be a racist nor do I aspire to be one.

Coaches show descrimination (but arguably not negative) when they choose one person over another so...what? Are they racist? I dont think so. Is
somone who observes the results of their choices racist? I also dont think so. Statistics of all sorts are reported by ethinicity or race.

[911Rob]

Tony has a "sensor" challenge.
You on the other hand don't.
There lies the challenge.

[Dueller]

I think "racist" may be a bit strong. Bigotted, maybe. Prejudiced, without a doubt when Tony made further comments in the thread. The post above this one was clearly racist when the person stated "90% of people in jail are black. Most blacks are a waste." Neither statement is factually true.

If we look at a spectrum of beliefs, I think everybody carries certain prejudices as a result of their environment...its inescapable. But understandable prejudice is something that we know is not quite right ad most people try to overcome them, sometimes swinging too far in the opposite direction. Bigotry is an ingrained disdain that goes beyond prejudice and a bigot feels no compulsion to consider his position might be untenable. Racism, as you use it in this context, is an irrational hatred that a person feels totally justified with.

In certain threads on here whether talking about dating or the dole, there are comments that are often made that the poster may not even be conscious of that make me wonder if the person making the statement understands oblique references to Newport cigarettes or big screen tv's or 22 inch rims are in fact indications of prejudice or perhaps even bigotry. I'm sure that some of the people making such statements would deny they're bigoted (as oppposed to "merely" prejudiced), which might be the litmus test as to whether they are or not.

And it certainly goes both ways with all ethnic groups.

At least that's my spin on it....

[dd74]

When is observation racist? When one makes lump-sum comments about entire ethnicities and nationalities based on a limited amount of observations.

For example: a Chinese man lost control of his car and ran it directly through our front yard fence and into a wall. I observed this accident and its aftermath. Therefore all Chinese drivers can't control their cars.

A silly, unfair and unqualified assessment, isn't it?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by tiwebber

...Why are there fewer white people (say per capita) in the NBA?...

Having spent countless hours in my youth playing b-ball with the "brothers", that one is inherently obvious to me

[Sonic dB]

Most blacks are a waste

wow that is quite a blanket statement.... looking at your profile, you have a ton of growing up to do...stop being such a scared POS for one thing...and then maybe you can see the world like it really is. idiot.


"October 6, 1982
Age:
25
Location:
New Haven, CT
Interests:
Porsche, going fast, playing with cars, finding more HP, Girls, parties
Occupation:
Toyota tech/ASE certified/t-ten/certified in Advanced engine perofrmance "

Racism is just one (or many) of the opiates of the people. Anaylsis: If you Smoke some more of that opiate fast 924, please try stay away from firearms and sharp objects. Make your life worth more than just a hate spewing fearful punk. Peace.

[911Rob]

I grew up in the Vancouver area and was raised by a racist ********* of a step-father. He hated East Indian people and made no bones about it. Yes, there were alot of them in our neighbourhood and I went to school in that very same neighbourhood. I made many friends of all cultures in that neighbourhood; all good people.

Later in life, when we all starting to drink and get into the odd bars, a very good friend of mine was beaten to death in the Westminster Hotel parking lot by three racist *********s. Why? Because he was East Indian. I was about 17 years old. The loss was devistating to say the least.

Today, I would go out of my way to support anti-racism in our cultures. Period.

Time to wave around the big stick and ban some of these *********s that post here!

[billh1963]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Unforunately, the term "racism" is a common weapon for people to use when they just don't like what you're saying.

-Wayne

I think Wayne has it nailed.

[Mo_Gearhead]

I read that other thread and thought it worthless to respond to, but on reflection, I can't not respond.

It is very obvious that SOME whites still consider blacks inferior to themselves.
And from some of the comments in that thread, one can only imagine the conversations taking place in those individuals homes in front of (or directed at) their children. And so the cycle of hatred rolls on ...passed on to the next generation.

And to think that similar conversations would not be taking place in SOME black homes (IE: how Whitey is depressing us and that the slavery of our ancestors must FOREVER be worn on our sleeves/etc.) would be naive.
And so it goes...

All this racial division is most interesting, especially as we now consider that a black man could perhaps become the next POTUS.

A black caller was recently asked by R. Limbaugh if having Obama elected would FINALLY put an end to the racial division of the USA. His one word answer ... 'No".

There will ALWAYS be pockets of hatred in a society based on skin color, religion, ethnicity...whatever, when one man thinks another man has some control over them....whether real or just perceived.

[FastCarFan]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

Today, I would go out of my way to support anti-racism in our cultures. Period.

Time to wave around the big stick and ban some of these *********s that post here!

I have always enjoyed 911Rob's posts & I always thought he seemed like a really good guy. Now there is no question -- he is.

[pmajka]

An observation becomes racist when a broad judgment is passed on the observation that is either not true and berating and/or defined by negative emotion (true or not).

example:

"There are few black men in Hockey" Fact
"There are few black men in Hockey because height can be a disadvantage on the ice" opinion with some fact based on Physics, but probably wrong.

"There are few black men in Hockey because they hate the cold" seems innocent enough but it is racist as there are many people of all races whose family roots come from warmer climates who live and work in some damn cold places.

[FastCarFan]

Racism = ignorance. Period.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Unforunately, the term "racism" is a common weapon for people to use when they just don't like what you're saying.

-Wayne

Absolutely, i could not agree more. It is a tool to gain an advantage and is over-used to extreme.

EDIT: there are always exceptions when using the term racism is appropriate, as in fast924S's case. Bye Bye, come back when you've grown up.

[Mule]

Fast924's comments were WAY over the line. That said, how many times, & where do you get off, TELLING Wayne who to ban there Slammin' Sammy? Seems like he does quite a good job making his own decisions. I'm just saying.

[KaptKaos]

The term "Race" to me is a misnomer. I don't know its origins, but it makes no sense. We are all the same species, proven by the fact that we can procreate with other humans of different genetic makeups.

At the root of all of this are cultural differences. "Race" becomes an issue when the cultural differences are easily defined by physical attributes. Then "racism" follows. It's actually ethnocentrism, but its not observed as such because technically, we are all Americans (apologies to non-Americans cruising this forum, but not to you Canadians, eh?) and supposedly of a single culture, but its not true.

Within America we have hundreds of sub-cultures, and the largest ones are most easily defined by genetic differences. Why? Because we profile. Profiling is a polite way to say we're prejudiced. We have pre-judged a person by their appearance. It happens in all walks of life, and its stupid to think we can eradicate prejudice.

What we need is assimilation of cultural norms. That is a give and take. White kids wearing baggy pants, black kids speaking with mid-western accents, Asian kids getting bad grades, whatever. And make no mistake, it is the children that assimilate, not the parents.

The problems arise when this assimilation seems to take all of the negative aspects of the various cultures and none of the positives. The dominant WASP culture doesn't like it when their kids wear baggy pants and say "wazzup snizzle", the black culture doesn't like it when kids "talk white", the Latinos don't understand when you want to continue on to college rather than get married and have 8 kids, and the Asians hate art school. These are just examples.

Reality is that anyone that calls someone a racist, is just as bigoted. The cry of racism is a knee-jerk reaction to silence sometimes (not always) legitimate discussion and criticism of the various cultures in our society. You can not ignore the differences, and we have developed a weird construct in society to deal with it. For example, as a white guy, I can't comment on the illegitimacy rate in the black community, but Bill Cosby can. It's like when I was a kid, my brother could beat me up, but if anyone else tried, my brother would take care of them. Until was get past this behavior, we can't fix these issues.

There was nothing wrong with Tony's anecdotal observations. He may have an agenda by bringing them up, but on the surface he said what he saw and asked a simple question: "why?" There is nothing inherently wrong with that. However, we are all hyper-sensitive to "racism" and cried foul for merely asking the question. It's not a slippery slope, asking the question doesn't lead to lynchings.

I worry that since we call everything "racist" that we won't really know it when we see it.

/end rant
//thanks for listening
///the thread killer strikes again!

[GothingNC]

I spotted a car with the plate "BLKPOWER" the other day.

Why is it a problem to have a plate "WHTPOWER"?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Mule

Fast924's comments were WAY over the line. That said, how many times, & where do you get off, TELLING Wayne who to ban there Slammin' Sammy? Seems like he does quite a good job making his own decisions. I'm just saying.

"ban him, I say" was what I think I typed in the other thread. No one is TELLING Wayne to do anything...we're just letting it be known what our individual tolerance levels are for these disgusting posts. I have complete confidence in the moderators and Wayne...

[Mule]

As to the original topic of this post, were Howard Cosell's famous comments that got him fired racist. They were accurate. Is the truth racist?

Here's something else to ponder. NFL players in the greatest volumes from the following states, CA, TX, FL, GA and LA. Give some thought to how little old LA is 5th out of 50 states in the production of world class athletes & 24th in population.

[GDSOB]

Originally Posted by pmajka

An observation becomes racist when a broad judgment is passed on the observation that is either not true and berating and/or defined by negative emotion (true or not).

example:

"There are few black men in Hockey" Fact
"There are few black men in Hockey because height can be a disadvantage on the ice" opinion with some fact based on Physics, but probably wrong.

"There are few black men in Hockey because they hate the cold" seems innocent enough but it is racist as there are many people of all races whose family roots come from warmer climates who live and work in some damn cold places.

It's because black kids arn't playing hockey. Heck, they're not even playing baseball anymore. Unless you live in a community that has a public youth hockey league, the expense an logistics of getting ice time are staggering.

I think we confuse race and culture all too much.

[island911]

Originally Posted by dd74

When is observation racist? When one makes lump-sum comments about entire ethnicities and nationalities based on a limited amount of observations.

For example: a Chinese man lost control of his car and ran it directly through our front yard fence and into a wall. I observed this accident and its aftermath. Therefore all Chinese drivers can't control their cars.

A silly, unfair and unqualified assessment, isn't it?

I think you have it a bit wrong.--you have there prejudice based on racism. (you could sub "big nose guy" for Chinese and it would just have prejudice)

Racism starts once one starts creating categories of race.(origins, genetic lineage.) Racism is amplified when one starts marking groups with genetically transmitted physical characteristics, for better or worse. --any trait that put one race as superior to another.



btw
Malcom X was a racist separatist.
Oprah is a racist ageist.
"Black history month" is a racist event, so is "i'm Irish day" (St Patric's)

...pretty much anyone can be allowed to be a racist of varying degree these day. tho' if you are of euro-lineage and lacking obvious genetically transmitted physical characteristics of an identifiable race, well expect to hear [scream]Racist[/scream] should you dare to note any differences. --Some people are just Waiting to be offended by you.