I can't tell you as I am wearing shorts and tee shirt for the past couple of days here in socal. Sorry I son't have an answer for you Ian. I don't know if it will freeze outside.

Jeff

Might have better luck spelling it RINNAI when you look it up.

They are very good. Bosch, agree, has problems.

You know that plumbing suppliers sell a good or targeted amount of a certain brand they get a bonus or a trip to some remote tropical island. They sell them, but who installs them and has to go back to fix it when something goes wrong. Look, I don't work for Takagi or get anything from them. I know they are one of the best. Another example, I would always try to get people to install Hans Grohe fixtures.

talk to you plumbing contractor about using , I forget type M or L pipe. It is the one with the blue printing on it. Min. code will allow (the red printing on pipe, I forget which type) to be use unless it's going under ground. My plumber and I agree its not worth the saving and use only , we'll call it the blue pipe. The red pipe are so thin that some will start to wear in 8-10 years. Pin hole will occur then start to drip or leak. it will cause real damage over time before you notice it.

We have Rannai, Rennai and Rinnai in this thread, and you say plumbers dont like to read!

Although it's not set in stone, I'm thinking I'll be putting two Noritz 6.9gpm units on the house I'm building - one on the garage wall & the other on the outside at the other end of the house. That's because the bathroom(s) end of the house is 60+ ft. from the kitchen end. My figures show (I hope) that set up should do a good job supplying hot water without much wait. I haven't decided if I need to connect the two systems with a circulating pump yet. If anybody's got any ideas/comments, I'd welcome them. Might also help someone else here out too.

rInnai?? duh!

yahoo, will actually send us idiots ( i mean myself) to the correct rinnai website. personally i blame the smaller keypad on my macbook ;)


thicker, blue stamped copper tubing check!

Wrong size unit or improper installation. Bosch are rated #1.

I don't have to google it.

It is rInnai ;)

sheet, I pull the dang camera out and take pictures if yah all want :D

Ok, I got off my lazy bum and went into the utility room to take pictures. Quality is crappy but you'll get an idea of what a typical setup looks like over here.

The unit is roughly 18 years old.

hand setting for temperature (lolo, with name on it ;) ):
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204159420.jpg

here is one of the vent piping into the ceiling area. About 5"-8" of space if that.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204159479.jpg


A little embarassing but, here is the washing machine connected to the unit with the various cleaning products that I keep close. flamables???? Over the past 10 years ... I do believe so. Just soaps and bleach now. There is a small sensor unit that is supposed to detect leaks but I disconnected it when I was moving things around. Too lazy to reconnect it :rolleyes:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1204159603.jpg


Once again, the unit is older and is an analog version. The newer ones are really sweet.

Ooops the piping vent is side ways ... lolo, just tilt your monitor :P

I have a Rinnai. Put it in to get a big discount from the Nat. Gas Co. (so I could get a gas cooktop). The comment re loss of elec. power = no hot water is dead on. The thing uses an elec. element to start the flame.

Mine is mounted outside on the wall and is supposedly properly sized. BUT, there is a long lag before I get hot water (even 10 ft. away). It does save energy and $$, and freed up space in my house wehre the old tank was.

I won't allow PEX pipe for my drinking water - copper pipe only.

You may need to ensure that your pipe is sized correctly - some of my house is 1/2" and I'm told that is a tad small.

You need a recirculating pump to avoid the "cold shot".

Standard, tank-style elec. water heaters do not work when the power goes out, too.

Is the garage attached to the house?

In my opinion, anything more then 40' of "running pipe" is too much. I, well my clients, should not have to wait. So I am a big fan of pumps. You must have a way to shut the unit off when it reached a certain set temp The pump has to be able to pull enough water thru the unit inorder to turn the unit on so water will heat up and recirc. through the system. remember to install the 2 check valves. Many pumblers think if they are recirc. water like a traditional tank heater, then they are dead wrong. The bigger the tankless unit is rated, them more flow it will take to turn it on. I think if you use the Takagi TM1(my favorite) then you need a 1/25hp pump. If you really need to know, I will find out tomorrow. A timer can be install on the unit to shut it off during the night. I don't think it is necessary. The thermo switch will go off in 15-20 second depending on the lengh of pipe to the furtest point of the plumbing fixture. It ususlly come on every 20 -30 minutes. You can even T off the the loop to all of the fixtures in the house. It really isn't necessary. You can tell that I am a big fan of the pumps. There's nothing like instant (3-5sec.) hot water. I almost do not install them without a recirc. pump. I think I have done one so far. My client have no problem paying for the installation. They love it.

Do not connect them with the pump. If you run a hotel, yes. Seperate them. Let one unit run one side of the house and the other should take care of the kitchen and etc... I don't know the lay out of your house. I would group, say one bath and the kitchen with one unit, another will supply the master bath, powder room and the laundry. This way is much more effect. The cost of the unit for the 2 little comes out to be the same as one big unit. More $$$ for installation that's all. Make sure you over size it a little if you have a big tub. I like to over build a little. Well sometime a lot to ensure quality is there. Just like our car's motor.

Jeff

Danny, when did you last install these Bosch units? We try them about 10 years ago and they didn't work very well. We are always trying out the latest and the greatest technology. When they started sell them at home depot, we run away from them.

The gas & water are all close enough to allow for outside or inside use. In a colder climate (Toronto, Ontario Canada), is outdoor an option or will it just cost more since it will be in freezing temps for 4 months or so?



Ian, there is a control that will bring the unit on so the heat exchanger won't freeze. Enbridge was promoting them a while ago. The best place to install them is by an outside wall so it can be vented easier to outside. City water pressure is very important for the unit to work properly.

Rinnai
 

My mother has had a Rinnai tankless water heater at her house for over four years, no problems. I have one at my house for over three years, also no problems.

I would not call this a fair evaluation. Even in plumbing, 10 years of technology change is significant.

I am considering this model from Lowes: http://www.boschwaterheater.com/BoschHotWatercomHome/GasProducts/BoschModel2400ES/FeaturesandSpecs/tabid/1243/Default.aspx

That's almost a foot (12") off the wall ?!?!?!

Mine is only like 4" at most.

I get hot water in about 4 seconds if the unit has been used on/off during the day. It's when I have gone to bed and wake up on a cold morning that I wait about 10 seconds.

There must be differences in these systems. ...

Alright I have to ask, what's a tank less water heater. I looked on their site and it didn't answer any of my questions. Is there a coles notes version?

just what is says bob. no tank. the water gets heated as it passes by. no energy spent heating water that sits in a tank, waiting to get used. no energy wasted just keeping a tank hot. saving space is another benefit. endless hot water, while the two hot females soap each other down....err nevermind.

tankless = NO tank ;)

Well, that is what I was thinking anyway.

The way I see it, a tank heater is that huge thing sitting most likely in the garage or some cubby hole closet. It has a tank which that little pilot light keeps the water warm and then kicks in whenever you need hot water.

A tankless heater is where the water runs through some kind of twisting pipe / radiator system where the water is heated on demand.

Maybe a better analogy would be the difference between using a regular cup instead of the coffee pot in your coffee maker :)

Then again, this could be totally wrong ... I normally am :D (lolo, ask my ex!!! )