I never got buzzed on xanax. It was to make it so that all my nerve endings no longer felt like they were on fire and I could actually function. Benzos are fairly specific in their action, alcohol less so. I know people who take benzos to get high (I used to pop valiums for that purpose back in the day) but if you are clinical and taking the right dose, there is no buzz at all.

I find alcohol to be a great social lubricant but it does not help with anxiety. But everyone's chemistry is a little different. The thing is, if you are questioning whether or not you have a problem...then you have a problem. The next question is what to do about it.

Was NEVER a drinker until about 2 mos. ago. You should see the lineup of wine bottles (and a few beer bottles as well) in my garage waiting to go to recycling. 1-3 glasses per night. Typical # is 2.

I started as part of a move to a healthier lifestyle and partly to expand my palate. Meals take on a whole new meaning when you add wine to the mix. Beer too IMO. For example last night i had a small plate of whole grain pasta with tomato sauce of my own making (garlic, olive oil, ital. seasonings and tomato puree) with 1 glass of Chianti. Ordinarily a small plate of pasta will see me looking for a hunk of meat to add to it or afterwards I'll be snacking like a fat chick in a little debbie factory; but adding the wine to it caused the meal to be MUCH more substantial and fulfilling. I ate one slice of cheese later that night. That's it. For me, it's amazing. I'm drinking alcohol for the flavor, not the alchohol.

My personal rule is no chemicals for the purpose of altering state of mind. Period.

I'm not sure what the health risks of 1 drink per day are (in the case of red wine it's actually beneficial!) but my guess is a little research would show that 1 pill per day is a far riskier behaviour to engage in.

I will admit though i read this thread with an eye towards monitoring my own habits. If i lost my job tomorrow and was facing forclosure on my home i'd probably stop buying wine until the situation was resolved. I love myself but I don't trust myself to get through a situation like that without some potential for abuse.

If you're facing a similar time in your life my feeling is lock out the booze to mitigate the potential for abuse. Come back to it when things are back on a more even keel.

Scientology, vicodin or weed.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...lculations.jpg

Average.:D

The liquor level is right below the top of the label.

I hate to break the news to you...but alcohol is a chemical that alters your state of mind.

No matter which you choose you're going to see aliens.

That's exactly what my doc said to me when I told him I didn't like the idea of medication.

I deal with anxiety. I had an anxiety "event" a couple of years ago that was pretty frightening. Xanax was prescribed, but it did virtually nothing. Ultimately, Valium did the trick. It was a deal where I needed to "reboot" my brain. I needed to shut it down for a while, then resume normal life. The Valium did that. When it was all finished, I had a fair number of them left. I have always enjoyed Valium but since my anxiety "event" was over, I didn't bother the leftover pills. They eventually went away. But.....I would keep them on hand if I could. Perhaps my doctor would allow me that. Doctors don't like prescribing Valium, even though at one point it was the second most popular pill in America.....right behind aspirin. It's addictive, they say. No big surprise there.....it works wonders on my anxiety, for sure. Xanax, a sister drug......not so much.

I have a beer or two each evening. Fairly strong beers, but not more than two.

Exercise is better. More effective. Creates a broad range of positive emotional and physical impacts.

I was an alcoholism counselor once. Most of them are alcoholics, and quite quick to diagnose. Quick to conclude you are an alcoholic. If you've ever driven drunk....alcoholic. If anyone has ever complained about your drinking.....alcoholic.

Still, based on what I have seen, alcoholism is not a disease you want to get. Nope.

'for the purpose of...'


Big difference to me.


I am finding the entire process of selecting, opening, pouring, sniffing, looking at and drinking the wine to be very relaxing. When i'm thinking about the relationship of the wine to the food i happen to be eating i am not thinking about tax returns, mortgage payments, rooms that need to be painted, problematic family members, grass that isn't growing too well this spring, the slow leak in the guest room toilet, etc.

well, you didn't say "for the purpose of" the first time around. But in fact you are altering your state of mind and an external chemical is involved. While all the other trappings are certainly part of the "experience", you'd have to admit that the ethanol itself is involved in it.

Perhaps some people find the procurement, opening of the bottle, swallowing of pills, and sitting around waiting for a decent serum level to be part of the "entire process."

I actually understand what you're saying, but plenty of rationalizations exist for all sorts of behaviors...

LenDaddy,

Your drinking habits sound exactly like mine so don't worry. You are A-OK.

Check my quote in your post NS, i did say 'for the purpose of'.

I do hear you though and recognize that the line can be a thin one indeed. This is why I stated i would remove the alcohol entirely if my situation became dire (and aren't we all one phone call from that?).

To me there is a major difference in that wine/beer have properties OTHER than just the alcohol. A yummy pilsner with an authentic kielbasa is VERY different from popping a pill and waiting for the world to turn fuzzy. I'm not a liquor guy but i assume the same can be said for scotch, whiskey, etc.

Like many I've had a front row seat to alcohol and pill abuse thanks to more than one person in my family and can really, really appreciate the damage such things can do. Pills are particularly evil because there is no smell, no telltale empty bottles, etc. and denial seems like it would be much easier.

Stick to the Bushmills!

A very good point. I see what you are saying and the chasm between pills and vino w/ dinner becomes just a bit smaller.

Good thread. To put a twist on a popular forum sentiment 'the honesty in this thread is strong'.

Seems to be the consensus.

mea culpa, but my response still stands. Maybe I read too much into it or took it out of context, but to me having a glass or two of wine at night followed by saying that you don't take any chemicals with the purpose of altering your state of mind is incongruous. I understand your clarification, but the bottom line is that we're arguing semantics. I guess one could discuss "intent" with drinking. If you enjoy the process, then how about a non-alcoholic wine or beer? If such a beast could taste as good, would the evening be as good?

I drink wine because my doc says it is good for my heart. I enjoy the side effect of the alcohol. I don't get drunk, but any amount of alcohol is going to lead to some amount of alteration in your mind. The intent doesn't matter...that is just chemistry. Of course the intent does perhaps matter when you're talking about how the substance and process affects one's life.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206565612.jpg


Can I offer some
jonny black
Balvenie
oban 14
jack single barrel
chivas
jameson
or
maker's
?????

dont know if anybody mentioned it but you can substitute the hard stuff for red wine. Get to sleep and clean your blood at the same time

By most measures, I'm a heavy drinker (as you all can probably tell by some of my late night replies.) Lately I've been thinking that the thing that's going to get me to stop is vanity :eek: At 40, my 6 pack abs are turning into a little pony keg. Maybe a switch from beer to something else would help?

On this we are in agreement 100%.

Terhats it would be reasonable to further distill the issue into drinking as a response to a situation vs. not.

Oh, yet another benefit for me is that after a glass (or two) of wine i will not drink soda. The two just don't get along in my stomach. Used to drink 1/2 to 1 liter of diet pepsi per evening.

Uggh. I have never drank diet soda, and a few years ago, in part due to my son, I essentially gave up ALL soda. I will have one about once every two months. If I'm forced to stop for fast food on the road I'll get a bottled water, and if I'm ordering a drink out that isn't wine it'll either be neat or with oj or lime juice.

That aspartame stuff will kill ya ;)

that shrink was a quack
maybe bake some pot brownies

Not a big fan of benzodiazepenes, most over prescribed drugs that are not antibiotics.
Xanax reaches peak plasma levels in 1-2 hours, 11 hour half life, so you take it at night, and are still feeling it the next morning. Pretty addictive, physically and psychologically.

How about you take the dog for a walk instead?

This info suggests that there is something you said/did which you did not appreciate, that has led your physician to suggest the change. Otherwise, it really doesn't completely add up.

In any case, it's not a good idea to use bennies or alcohol as sleep aids.

Which he didn't appreciate? No I don't think so and I'm not seeing where you're coming from. Elaborate and I'll explain.

I know it's not a great solution.

Sometimes questions are asked in an oblique fashion to approach the real question and get to the root of the problem. I don't mean he doesn't like you. I do mean that maybe you can't remember something you did or said, or perhaps even part of an answer that you were giving about something else (you thought), that may have led your MD to make that suggestion.

I have a beer or two or possibly something else just about every evening. I don't consider it a problem.

I have found that if I drink more than that, at say a party or something, it interferes with my sleep. Also, I don't enjoy the buzz like I did when I was younger. No experience with pills, haven't got into a situation where I needed them. Knock on wood.

Because you see it as a severe suggestion? I'm not trying to be obtuse, it just happens sometimes:)

I continue to find it amazing that a patient that has had a doctor for 15 years, would question his judgement and instead ask the opinion of a random group of people they have never met and have no professional skills in this area. We have no idea of the other circumstances, medical issues, etc. We don't even know the meds, doses, etc he was recommending. At best we are blindly guessing- lets try flipping a coin. Why don't we all go and ask the clerk at Walmarts as well- they will have an opinion as well. There was an interesting article in one of the throw away journals that showed that many patients trusted the drug store clerks- who were often high school kids that wore the blue vests- more than their doctors as well. As a patient you certainly have choices, and I am not recommending you blindly follow recommendations without question. But I doubt that random guesses will be more useful to your care that a professional with whom you have had a long relationship. If you have questions- ask him. If you don't trust his judgment, find a new doctor.
Gary

Gary, I'm not asking people to make my decisions rather just seeking opinions like I would a friend. Don't read too much into it. Also there are many docs here and a couple have chimed in. If nothing else I hear of others experiences.

Phhhhh!! You don't know?

Everyone here knows more than the next guy, if everyone applied themselves here we could cure cancer, build 500HP cars that do not use crude oil, solve all the countries problems and invent a religion that everyone would agree with and love.

LOL. Actually, I'm hoping you'll become more acute in your acumen.

Using a benny for sleep, not really the standard of care at the current time. Maybe there's something else driving the suggestion for a change from the legal drug to the prescribed drug, other than trying to get you to sleep. PPOT kind of is aware of your situation, but I doubt we have the real understanding of what you look like and feel like on a day to day basis. You may not even know it yourself. OTOH this physician has known you a long time and can see things we can't perceive through a computer screen....

Some of us have first-hand experience with the drugs in question, and forgotten more biochemistry than the docs ever learned in the first place.

Len said the dose. I know the typical scripts that get written for this. Yes, his doctor might know best but from my discussions with various GPs and Psychs, often GPs are guessing when it comes to these types of meds. And in general, we live in a culture where we over-prescribe for sickness (ie antibiotics) and psych (ie prozac, benzos) and under-prescribe for pain (although the latter seems to be changing).

Hopefully some of the information here can help Len ask his doc the right questions. Were I him I'd also get a psych consult. Patients need to be informed and involved in their health care. You can go to webMD or the Mayo site for vetted information, but this place has a fair amount of expertise and real-world experience. Should one take it with a grain of salt? Most definitely. But I wouldn't reject it out-of-hand, nor would I just follow what my GP said "just because."

Go to a herbal shop and ask for something that makes you sleep. I take something called easy sleep, made by Healtheries which may be just an Australian/New Zealand company. So there will be lots of things in the US.

It works really well as it stops your mind racing around. It also got rid of the hyper feeling that I get after I've had my minimum sleep requirement which is about 3 or 4 hours. With Easy sleep I get about 6 or even 8 hours sleep. And like mentioned earlier gym or a walk is excellent. A jump is even better.

We can agree to disagree. If you want to get your drugs prescribed by a biochemist be my guest. I certainly support this type of discussion on a general basis, but to even consider that it can help on any individual case I think is foolhardy. I am on boards every day where cancer treatments, etc are discussed in a similar manner. Just because drug X worked or didn't work for my Aunt Millie, has nothing to do with any other individual patient. The doctor patient relationship is a large, broad and important one. It consists of much more than xanax. General discussion on such topics can be helpful, but to make individual decisions based on random comments is not usually the sign of genius.
Gary

Ok, I see now. I read it that it sounded to you like I had insulted or pissed off the doc.

Yea, we got into my situation a bit and I'm sure he thinks I have some anxiety issues given our discussion. But in reality he really wants me to stop drinking because he feels the health effects are devastating. He talked of a slow pickling of the brain, and muscle atrophy, etc... obviously extreme examples but he was driving at a point. I got the impression that he might see an opportunity to nip an aspiring alcoholic in the bud:D

One important thing I forgot to mention is that given a couple of other symptoms and my weight he is concerned about diabetes and stopping the alcohol would help with that.

He ran a full urine and blood work up and I'll have those results Monday-Tuesday.

Now we're getting somewhere. Were there changes on your biochem profile, urine etc. Do you have a touch of sleep apnea as well? Was he advocating use of the benny just for sleep or for gen anxiety/worry? Are you really drinking only a generous sized one at night. Family history of substance abuse (don't answer)? See, there's more here than meets first glance.

Oh, and he may want you to think that he wants you to avoid becoming an alcoholic. That may not be the true purpose at all. (Don't hold it against him. Would you really take a benny for anxiety? Think less of yourself because you did? Shades of Lube)

The biochem profile won't be back until next week (Doc was going out of country for a overseas charity hospital thing he does so it's delayed).

I do not have sleep apnea though my father did(had surgery).

Not for sleep, it wasn't even mentioned I don't think. It was discussed as a "less evil" way to relax at the end of the day.

No, it's more than a drink usually. I described it as a generous nightcap to him but didn't get specific. Truthfully a fifth lasts less than a week and I guess there are 25oz in a fifth so.....maybe 3-4 normal sized drinks or 2-3 Len-sized drinks :D.

Len, after reading you comments about your doc and now with the overseas trip, mine is going too, could we have the same doc? Mine is also very conservative about offering meds.

Initials W. T. ?

I would give up alcohol in minute to avoid diabetes.