Need advice: Possibly selling car to overseas

jstein · 03-25-2008, 07:16 AM

All,

I have had a serious offer for my 91 from a European buyer. He is willing to pay for shipping via DAS.

I have no idea on how to handle things at this point. All of the scams I've heard about make me hesitant - what is the collective wisdom on how to proceed?

He has requested a scan of the title to run a carfax and check "history". Other than that, he has offered to pay up front by (what I assume is) wire transfer.

The Gaijin · 03-25-2008, 07:24 AM

Lots of threads on this issue. Be very, very careful. I think all carfax needs is a VIN#. For a start - I would ask this person for his name, home address and business and google him.

stomachmonkey · 03-25-2008, 07:50 AM

I would not send him a scan of the title.

Supply VIN only

Don't assume anything.

Get it all spelled out clearly.

Sapporo Guy · 03-25-2008, 08:03 AM

What happens if that guy gets a scan of the title?
Or, I should really say what could be done? Somethign like transfer of title without payment and things like that?

jstein · 03-25-2008, 11:19 AM

He is a member of PP and Renn, so at least there is that.

You are correct that all CarFax needs is the VIN# - not sure why he asked for a scan of the title.

einreb · 03-25-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstein

He is a member of PP and Renn, so at least there is that.

You are correct that all CarFax needs is the VIN# - not sure why he asked for a scan of the title.

because he's going to wire 16k to you and wants to make sure you own the car?

911paige · 911paige's Garage

the scan is o.k he can't do nothing with in europe unless he wants to renumber a stolen car in europe not to worry if he sends or wires the money to you take it out of that account as fast as possible and close the account then you have money in hand car and title then let das do the rest i once sold a car to to a guy in california he paid thru escrow.com and then das picked up the car no problem when he received the car the funds were released if you do it thru escrow.com

johndglynn · johndglynn's Garage

I wouldn't use escrow services, do it right through the banks and all should be fine if the money is genuinely coming from Europe. Stick to banks though, not Western Union or any of those guys. The car probably won't even leave the country for 5 or 6 weeks after it is paid for and leaves you, the boats were all backed up big time last time I heard (end of January).

Is the buyer in the UK?

pwd72s · 04:27 PM

Your bank can set up a new account for you. Use that number to accept the wire transfer...then after you've switched the funds to your regular account, ship the car...it wasn't that I didn't trust Evren...it was nervousness about the Turkish banks, perhaps a dishonest employee.

Of course, my overseas deal was "different"...with both buyer (Evren) and seller (myself) being good friends. A TON of trust on both sides.

How's this for a pic of being cool in Istanbul?

Hugh R · 03-25-2008, 04:57 PM

wire transfers are secure. I'd take it an immediately transfer it to another account since he'll have your account number, or better yet, open up a new account just for this purpose, get the money and close the account.

jstein · 03-27-2008, 08:18 AM

Ok, things are proceeding - thanks to all of you for your advice so far.

The last issue I'm concerned about is the bill-of-sale. The buyer would like to put a price on the (signed) bill-of-sale which is significantly less than our agreed upon price to avoid (or reduce) import taxes into his country.

This doesn't sit well with me.

Experiences?
Thoughts?

TerryBPP · 03-27-2008, 08:30 AM

He is just trying to save on taxes.

pwd72s · 03-27-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh R

wire transfers are secure. I'd take it an immediately transfer it to another account since he'll have your account number, or better yet, open up a new account just for this purpose, get the money and close the account.

Thanks Hugh, that's what I meant to say in my earlier post...just forgot to say it! Another senior moment.

Neilk · 03-27-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstein

Ok, things are proceeding - thanks to all of you for your advice so far.

The last issue I'm concerned about is the bill-of-sale. The buyer would like to put a price on the (signed) bill-of-sale which is significantly less than our agreed upon price to avoid (or reduce) import taxes into his country.

This doesn't sit well with me.

Experiences?
Thoughts?

Typical European trying to "save" on taxes as Terry mentioned. Nothing to worry really.

pwd72s · 03-27-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstein

Ok, things are proceeding - thanks to all of you for your advice so far.

The last issue I'm concerned about is the bill-of-sale. The buyer would like to put a price on the (signed) bill-of-sale which is significantly less than our agreed upon price to avoid (or reduce) import taxes into his country.

This doesn't sit well with me.

Experiences?
Thoughts?

No real experience...since I sold for well below market, wasn't after money. However...consider the insurance hassles...say the boat sinks, and you claim the car is worth half of what it is?

stomachmonkey · 03-27-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s

No real experience...since I sold for well below market, wasn't after money. However...consider the insurance hassles...say the boat sinks, and you claim the car is worth half of what it is?

As far as the insurance he can set it to full value.

I can sell anything I want under value, does not affect it's real replacement value.

Maybe I am in a financial bind and need quick cash so I'm willing to take a hit.

jstein · 03-27-2008, 11:45 AM

I understand he is trying to save on taxes - my real question is:

does this implicate me in anything illegal which could come back and haunt me?

John_AZ · 03-27-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstein

All,

I have had a serious offer for my 91 from a European buyer. He is willing to pay for shipping via DAS.
I have no idea on how to handle things at this point. All of the scams I've heard about make me hesitant - what is the collective wisdom on how to proceed?
He has requested a scan of the title to run a carfax and check "history". Other than that, he has offered to pay up front by (what I assume is) wire transfer.

Since you have chosen to use the word "implicate" and "assume" I would suggest getting more information prior to the sale. In your mind you have already spent the money and you need to step back and think about it.

1. Make sure you never send money to the shipping company DAS or a last minute change of shippers you never heard of-usually a P.O. box in NY.
2. You indicate he is a PP and Rennlist member-What is his ID and when did he join?
3. Once you receive the transfer, even if from a known company, wait for at least 10 days or longer. The sending transfer company may have gotten a insufficient funds transfer and will ask you to repay. If the auto shipping company shows up the day of the money transfer I would worry.
4. If you put down a fake amount-you are as guilty as the buyer and he may hold it over your head in the future. It may signal a red flag overseas and you signed the tax/sale document.
5. What would happen if the buyer demanded you return a portion of cash because the car is not as perfect as listed? You have already admitted the fact with the lower sale price on the tax/sale document.
6. The buyer has worries as well. What if you decide to stop the sale after the money is transferred? You have the car and the cash.
Either way a difficult situation.

Good luck.

John_AZ

pwd72s · 03-27-2008, 05:34 PM

Are you making a capital gain on the sale of this car? If so, understating could get you in trouble with the IRS...Cindy & I did a LOT of thinking and talking on this one, since I was poor at keeping 34 years of records. We decided it was best to pay capital gains...better than having to worry about it for years to come.