Hind sight is 20/20 (or better) Used Car issue

mikester · 04-10-2008, 01:42 PM

Watching the Customer service threads and the car sales thread recently, maybe bringing this up here will help me thread myself to a positive resolution.

I bought a used car from a dealer this week. I did a bunch of research but did not research one very simple thing and in then that is what is causing me this frustration. The friends of mine I have talked too have all come to similar conclusions as mine but that's what friends are for right?

So, this week I bought a 2000 Volvo V70 wagon.

It's a nice car and I like it a lot, I went over it closely at the lot and more or less felt everything checked out. The dealer accepted the offer I made to purchase and of course did not bring any issues to my attention (I really did not expect that they would). So, off we go to complete the paperwork and sign the papers. It was a fairly quick process and everything was straight forward. The price they were asking was relatively in line with the value and what I was willing to pay so the negotiation was quick.

Papers are done, they get the car cleaned up and drive it out to me where I am standing on the lot. They hand me the key, I ask where are the other keys and the remotes? "There are none, it is just that one." is the answer I get. Hind sight of course is that I should have stopped right there but I didn't. I had a conference call I was supposed to be getting on in 5 minutes that I could not miss, I had not planned on spending that much time there so I couldn't stay and fight it out. I also figured, 'Keys, how much can they be?' Well...boy was I way wrong there. Volvo keys are apparently made of gold. To add a second key to my chain and replace the missing remotes it'll cost ~$450.

The remotes are $145 each, and they charge $140 to program them with an additional 'software' charge of $30 each. The additional key is $60 plus the $30 software charge. If I get them all at the same time the programming charge is only charged once (how nice).

Are the remotes that critical? Well, I can't lock the car without the remote unless I go to the driver's door. That's the only key access there is on the car besides the glove box or the ignition. Without the ability to lock or unlock the doors from the passenger side at least it becomes somewhat of a safety issue for me. Negotiating unlocking or locking the doors and getting children in and out of the car - well I'm not comfortable with it. There's also the question in my mind that I feel that the car was misrepresented to me. It's missing very expensive parts, the dealer knew the parts were expensive, knew they were missing and did not share that information with me prior to sale. With those facts in mind I can't help but feel that the car was misrepresented to me. Every person I have mentioned this problem to has asked me the same question that I have been asking myself "WHO THINKS TO ASK ABOUT THE KEYS?!" but apparently you should (let that be a warning I guess).

I have contacted the salesman who sold me the car and he said he has called the previous owner to see if they have the keys but he said the only option he might be able to do in the end is provide a second key.

I need at least one remote, preferably two. I would be willing to pay for the key (but not the labor involved in programming it).

If I can't get a satisfactory today from the Sales guy (which I don't expect to be able to) I will escalate. Let's say - and I feel like the chances are fairly high - that they tell me to pound sand. What can I do then? I have had friends, and I have thought of this myself, suggest small claims court. I don't really have a problem with that process myself but is it a valid route to go here? Am I totally off base? I really don't want to have to go that route - I would much rather get them to handle this via good customer service but you know how that is when talking about a dealer...

If I were this honest with my Porsche (which is for sale) it would have been sold and I would have gotten quite a bit more than I expect to eventually get for it when it is sold. It has problems and I am up front about them; I did not expect the same thing from a dealer but we're talking about f'ing KEYS! here - for crying out loud...

911boost · 911boost's Garage

Ouch, when you trade a car in, why keep the spares and the extra keys???

Neilk · 04-10-2008, 01:52 PM

Did you buy the car at a Volvo dealership or a dealership group that has a Volvo dealership? If so, I would at least expect to get a new key and remote at cost without any programming fees. Otherwise, good luck... but I agree with you. You should have been warned.

mikester · 04-10-2008, 01:54 PM

Volvo Dealership.

71T Targa · 04-10-2008, 01:55 PM

We went through this with my wife's Toyota and the best we could come up with was to get the dealer to get us a key and remote at cost and not charge us to program it. I think it was $100...

stomachmonkey · 04-10-2008, 02:06 PM

Bought a used 3000GT a bunch of years back.

Came with 4 sets of keys.

Remote dies on one shortly after.

Go inside and grab another set.

Remote works but the key does not fit???????

Go back in and grab all the keys.

Only the 1st one works, the other 3 are for a different car.

Huh????

Dealer is near my office so I bring the keys and tell them "you gave me 3 sets of keys that do not belong to my car", "I'd like them replaced with ones that work"

Stop by at the end of the day and they hand me a bill for nearly ~$60, $18 per key.

Said "I'm not paying for these" Service manager starts to cop an attitude, waiting room is full so I raise the level of my voice so it can be heard by everyone, not screaming, just loud talking about the how incompetent they must be and how dare they charge me for something that was supposed to come with the car and what a racket they had going here cheating customers like this yada, yada, etc....

Got my keys.

mikester · 04-10-2008, 02:18 PM

I like your style there, I may employ it to some extent.

Eric Coffey · 04-10-2008, 02:25 PM

You might check with your State's vehicle purchasing laws. You might have a "buyer's remorse" period to return it (like a 3-day right of rescission).

Danny_Ocean · 02:29 PM

Why is the dealer (stealer) the first place everyone runs when they need something for their car?

The dealer is the last place I'd go and only if I couldn't find the part anywhere else. (And why is everyone surprised when they discover the dealers price??)

A search on E-Bay reveals 58 results for your remote. The most expensive one I see is $50. Most are in the $20 ~ $30 range:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Volvo+remote+V70&category0=

Steve Carlton · 04-10-2008, 02:29 PM

I'd make an appointment to see the General Manager. The car is incomplete without the keys and remotes and a reasonable person would expect them to come with the car. The dealer should have taken this into account when they bought the car from the previous owner (if they even did). They likely picked it up at an auction. Since it's a Volvo dealer, they can do it all at cost, which might wind up being $200. Shouldn't be a big deal for them.

The sales department may have a whole box full of extra remotes. Hopefully, there's one or two that are for your car and all they have to do is program them. Maybe check with the parts manager if he has any "used" remotes.

stomachmonkey · 04-10-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

Why is the dealer (stealer) the first place everyone runs when they need something for their car?

The dealer is the last place I'd go and only if I couldn't find the part anywhere else. (And why is everyone surprised when they hear the dealers price??)

A search on E-Bay reveals 58 results for your remote. The most expensive one I see is $50:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Volvo+remote+V70&category0=

Normally avoid stealers but why should I have to pay for something because they f'd up and gave me the wrong keys?

Don't care if the blanks are $2 or $20.

Not the point.

mikester · 04-10-2008, 02:31 PM

There is no Buy's remorse in CA with Cars. eBay is the first place I went to look and yes I can buy the remotes there but I would still have to take them to the dealer to program them (at $140 + $30 software charge). The dealer is the only place I can take them for programming - at least that's the best info I've been able to find.

Steve Carlton · 04-10-2008, 02:32 PM

See if the original owner's name is in the owner's manual or warranty book, and if so call them. Who knows if the salesman even did.

mikester · 04-10-2008, 02:51 PM

Call the GM just a few minutes ago and he seemed to talk the customer service talk well enough. He closed no doors on helping me out as best he felt he could.

Whatever that means.

Anyway - it did seem somewhat positive but he asked for 'time' to try to work it out. I said that I could be reasonable with that, sometimes I do get a bit impatient and I do need to put myself in check.

I know the last time I traded in a car in 05, we left one of the keys at home. I took it back to the dealership the next day (they were surprised to see me regarding it) but it was important to me to do so.

Danny_Ocean · 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikester

There is no Buy's remorse in CA with Cars. eBay is the first place I went to look and yes I can buy the remotes there but I would still have to take them to the dealer to program them (at $140 + $30 software charge). The dealer is the only place I can take them for programming - at least that's the best info I've been able to find.

My point is...you signed a contract and that is binding. If the contract doesn't specifically say "two sets of keys w/remotes", then you are basically SOL. If the dealer wished to keep you as a customer, they would have said "no problem" when you first requested the keys/remotes. Apparently, they don't give a flying rats arse about the "after sale".

So...how much time (remember, time = $$$) & frustration are you going to spend dicking with the dealer to get your remotes? Two clicks on E-Bay, $50 and you have your remotes. Problem solved. Find another dealer who is reasonable (see excerpt below) to program for $25. You're done for $75.

Or, go back to the dealer one, two three more times; raise hell; hire a lawyer; file a complaint with the BBB; stand in front of the dealership with a protest sign...whatever.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

From the web (A Volvo forum of all things)

:

I also have a '98 S70 and tried and tried to program it myself. There is no way in the world. Has to be done by the dealer. Take all of your remotes in at once. They do them in series and the old ones have to be reprogrammed. If you leave one at home, it will not work once the others are programmed. 3 can be programmed for your car. If you buy one off of ebay like I did, don't tell your dealer what you did...just tell him it quit working or something. My dealer charged me $25 for both of mine to be done (didn't have a 3rd one). Good luck.

BTW, the "programming CD is required" story is a load of crap. It doesn't use a CD but instead the VT2000 tool through the OBD-II socket. They use your VIN to get a PIN number and that is used. I don't know any other details than this.

Danny_Ocean · 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Normally avoid stealers but why should I have to pay for something because they f'd up and gave me the wrong keys?

Don't care if the blanks are $2 or $20.

Not the point.

They didn't give him the remotes. They didn't say the remotes were included. Terms of the contract is what's binding. They don't have to fork over the remotes. And, if they only made $500 profit in selling the car (typical), they ain't about to turn over $450 worth of remotes. That's the point.

MikeSid · 04-10-2008, 03:00 PM

Dealers never give you two keys and rarely are there floor mats
I specifically negotiated both items when I bought my Land Cruiser.

I am convinced that dealers - new and used - do this to generate an additional future purchase by the customer. Pulling out mats usually cleans up the look of the car to make it more appealing and no one ever thinks to ask about the key. In the end, they are both fairly expensive items to get....especially a full set of mats for a LC.

If I have a friend going to buy a car, I always tell them to make keys and mats an express part of the negotiation. It's an easy thing for the salesman to throw in and it can cost $1K if you have to buy both on your own.

Steve Carlton · 04-10-2008, 03:03 PM

Talked to a guy I know who's the manager of a local Volvo dealer. They only sell factory certified used Volvos, so this situation wouldn't come up. But if it did, they would do the right thing. But he did point out that you accepted the car even after you noticed the key and remotes were missing, which puts you on the short end of the stick. The dealer might only offer you 10-20% off on the parts. If they made a good profit on the car, they'd be in a better position to be generous. Hard to say. Their cost on the stuff is probably $350ish.

If you buy remotes on eBay, find out what the part numbers are supposed to be as they're very model and year specific. Otherwise, there's an excellent chance they won't work.

daepp · 04-10-2008, 03:07 PM

Often times if a car is repo'd they only have one set of keys.

Erakad · Erakad's Garage

Funny thing, when I traded my last car to a dealer, they seemed totally unconcerned that I didn't have both remotes. Didn't ask for them, didn't care. When I returned a couple days later though, I did bring the extra remote. You'd think they'd be happy...right? No, it was hey thanks...bye.

Very sad isn't it.