Rich vs. Middle Class?

[Arizona_928]

Rich.... is with what u have and happy u have it.


like me i probely make 3k a year. and know i'm rich.
i own two p cars outright. no help from me parents.

rich doesn't have to be by $ it could be on how well u play the game of "life"

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

rich doesn't have to be by $ it could be on how well u play the game of "life"

Porschekid, you are wise beyond your years! From my perspective, you are "rich" if you are truly happy, and I've seen plenty of "poor" people that have more money than I can fathom .

[snowman]

Democrats must be very wise. They think anyone who makes ANY income is rich and want a cut of it for themselves. Democrats must think everyone is very happy, because they say everyone is rich, rich mind you, so rich they need to give till it hurts. Democrats do not include themselves in their definition of rich. Al Gore is not rich, he is just blessed with very large homes. He employs many peons as well. Someone has to dust his giant house. Typical Democrat. Could this be why Democrats like illegal immigrants? They need slave labor to keep afloat, slaves to pay their taxes, to vote for them. Thats right illegals do in fact vote.

[Purrybonker]

Originally Posted by Wickd89

Does anyone have a distribution of net worth of Americans. For example.
- <0
- 0
- 0 to 5k
- 5k to 10k
- 10k to 50k
- 50k to 100k
- 100k to 500k
- 500k to 1M
-- 1m to 3m
-- 3m to 10m
-- 10m -50m
-- >50m

Should we do a poll! Just curious (no names of course).

There was an article in the paper here that suggested there are about 250,000 millionaires in Canada (liquid/investment capital, not primary residence). Canada has a population of 32 million so that means that about 0.75% of us are millionaires.

So, probably about 1% of Americans are millionaires - which is right around the same number of Americans that are in jail!

Now that's brilliant symmetry. Well done.

[snowman]

All of us 1% PAY ALMOST 100% OF THE TAXES. 50% of the population in the US pay NO income tax. On top of that we pay tax on social security for a SECOND time, just because we are nice guys.

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by Purrybonker

Canada has a population of 32 million so that means that about 0.75% of us are millionaires.

32million. Not a judgement, just an observation. The USA is now around 300 million. It is so much tougher for larger countries to provide opportunity to its people.
For example, I am responsible for the LA/OC area that has a population of 16.7Million. That is just in one metro area.
That is more than 60% of all the European nations, etc, etc...

Always fascinated about statistics like this.

Here are the numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population#List

[snowman]

I am in the top 0.5% of the income for one reason, I worked for it. I worked my way through college, I paid 100% of my own way, no scholarships for being black or indian or whatever. Because I worked hard the no counts, the leaches of society think they own half of my income. BS, just plain BS. I am willing to support charity of my own choosing. I am not willing to give no counts a good living just for being bums, black, indian or whatever. If they work the fields, clean the restrooms and all the other work that Americans supposedly won't do I am willing to consider some support, otherwise I say let the sobs starve! Low income, want a college degree, work for it. No scholarships, just jobs that will pay their way, jobs like I had to do. If someone is not willing to go the extra step required to support themselves, they are not worthy of any support, period. Hunger is a great motivator.

What I am proposing is in no way harsh. It is JUST. It is compassionate, it is realistic, it works. Liberals that just take my money and give it to others, are just plain Crooks, thieves, no counts. If any of them think they earned their money to easily, let them give away, do the right thing. The right thing is NOT taking my money for their cause.

[Hugh R]

I found this:

Have you ever wondered how your income and net worth compare with your fellow Americans? Below are some statistics compiled by the Census Bureau for the year 2005:

- There are about 240 American billionaires.
- 275,000 American households have a net worth of $10 million or more.
- About four million Americans (1.4%) have a net worth of $1 million or more.
- About five percent of households are considered high income and are defined as households that earn more than $90,000 annually.
- The median household income for all 50 states in 2004 is $44,000.
- Median income by region: The median household income for southern states is the lowest at $37,000; the highest median household income is found in the northeastern states at $47,000.
- Median income by race: African-American households had the lowest median income in 2004 ($30,134) among all racial groups. Asian households had the highest median income ($57,518). The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $48,977. Median income for Hispanic households was $34,241.
- The real median wage for a man in 2004 is $40,798; for a woman, $31,223
- The mean hourly wage of all workers in the US is $11.87; the average wage is $18.00.
- 37 million (10 to 13 percent) people live in poverty in the United States. Poverty is defined as a household income below $19,307 for a family of four; for a family of three, $15,067; for a family of two, $12,334; and for an individual living alone, $9,645.

From the above, I'm barely in the top 1.4% of Americans in net worth (using a conservative estimate of my home's real value), and top 5% of wage earners. Funny, I don't feel like it. Of course the data is from 2004, so I may not be any more.

[David]

"the world needs ditch diggers too" - Judge Elihu Smails

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

I found this:

Have you ever wondered how your income and net worth compare with your fellow Americans? Below are some statistics compiled by the Census Bureau for the year 2005:

- There are about 240 American billionaires.
- 275,000 American households have a net worth of $10 million or more.
- About four million Americans (1.4%) have a net worth of $1 million or more.
- About five percent of households are considered high income and are defined as households that earn more than $90,000 annually.

Funny but I would not consider myself rich or most of my friends, although most are worth over 1M. Everyone has to work for a living to keep their net worth from shrinking. I agree on using a very conservative value for your home when calculating your net worth.

Wealth in my opinion has to be liquid. Really liquid!!!

Wealth is the option not to work; ever!

Most household in CA that I know make over $150K/year and are far from what wealthy. Comfortable yes, wealthy no...

[Hugh R]

Luis

I agree completely. $150K/year in LA, the OC is just living comfortably, but not "Rich". I bought my house 10 years ago for $360K, a bank repo with a lot of work needed. It's now worth $750K easily and at one time about a million. I have an 08 Camry Hybrid, an 04 Highlander, and an 84 911 Targa. The only reason that I have the new Camry is that I sold an old sports car last summer for "Stupid" money to an arab sheik. If it were not for the sale of that car, I'd still be driving my 1996 Mazda 626 with 150K on the clock. The IRS doesn't adjust your taxes for the cost of living. I'm sure that if you make $150-$200K/year in many parts of the country you're sitting pretty fat; not so in El Aye. Here you're doing pretty good, but you aren't buying too many extra toys.

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Luis

I agree completely. $150K/year in LA, the OC is just living comfortably, but not "Rich". I bought my house 10 years ago for $360K, a bank repo with a lot of work needed. It's now worth $750K easily and at one time about a million. I have an 08 Camry Hybrid, an 04 Highlander, and an 84 911 Targa. The only reason that I have the new Camry is that I sold an old sports car last summer for "Stupid" money to an arab sheik. If it were not for the sale of that car, I'd still be driving my 1996 Mazda 626 with 150K on the clock. The IRS doesn't adjust your taxes for the cost of living. I'm sure that if you make $150-$200K/year in many parts of the country you're sitting pretty fat; not so in El Aye. Here you're doing pretty good, but you aren't buying too many extra toys.

We are totally on the same page. The reason I know I am not rich, is that I actually care about the rising price of gas; and slightly consider getting ride of my Twin Turbo A6 (for a Civic or Corolla)...;-)

I think I can stop working for 10 years, but I would surely start starving thereafter....

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by Wickd89

We are totally on the same page. The reason I know I am not rich, is that I actually care about the rising price of gas; and slightly consider getting ride of my Twin Turbo A6 (for a Civic or Corolla)...;-)

I think I can stop working for 10 years, but I would surely start starving thereafter....

Forgot to say. NOT trying to insult anyone, it is just that I am not a kid anymore and have saved my pennies for many years. I got ride of my 1988 Acura Integra with 240K miles just 4 years ago, so I a do not have a problem with smaller compact cars.
Its just that I have put on a little weight lately, so I just do not fit comfortably.

[911Rob]

Well from reading through most of this thread, I'd say Rich is alot like the word Success; it's defined by each person personally.

I think I still use the good 'ol Million Dollars as a personal bench mark for rich, fwiw.

As for middle class; I've always said, take away credit and you'll remove the middle class, period.

Cheers

[Dueller]

I think I am partly to blame for this thread getting off off topic with a discussion of rich vs. wealthy.. Back to the original query: Rich vs. Middle class.

Since there are so many regional differences, I think a generic description rather than specific dollar amounts would be in order.

Middle class would be someone who has to work to support their lifestyle and living expenses. HH income would be above the median for the region where they live. Their largest "investment" would be their home which would be mortgaged for a reasonable amount (no more than 25% of their take home pay). They would have car(s), motorcycles, boats, etc (i.e., assets that are depreciating generally) worth no more than 1/2of their annual income. At least 20% of their net income is available for discretionary spending.

Rich,,,probably no debt, or if there is debt they have liquid assets that could retire all debt at any time they choose. Net worth not counting home at least 25-50 times the median HH income for their region. Passive income sufficient to sustain their lifestyle for the forseeable future without working.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Luis

I agree completely. $150K/year in LA, the OC is just living comfortably, but not "Rich". I bought my house 10 years ago for $360K, a bank repo with a lot of work needed. It's now worth $750K easily and at one time about a million. I have an 08 Camry Hybrid, an 04 Highlander, and an 84 911 Targa. The only reason that I have the new Camry is that I sold an old sports car last summer for "Stupid" money to an arab sheik. If it were not for the sale of that car, I'd still be driving my 1996 Mazda 626 with 150K on the clock. The IRS doesn't adjust your taxes for the cost of living. I'm sure that if you make $150-$200K/year in many parts of the country you're sitting pretty fat; not so in El Aye. Here you're doing pretty good, but you aren't buying too many extra toys.

If the IRS were to adjust taxes due to COL living in LA then they should do the same for Fairfield County, CT.

I'm sure Hillary or Barack would have sympathy for anyone making 150K a year. They might even assign you your own illegal immigrant family to support out in El Aye.

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

If the IRS were to adjust taxes due to COL living in LA then they should do the same for Fairfield County, CT.

I'm sure Hillary or Barack would have sympathy for anyone making 150K a year. They might even assign you your own illegal immigrant family to support out in El Aye.

Question for the lucky self-employeed: How many of you are just getting by (ON paper that is...;-)))?

Most of my friends that are self-employeed, write off almost everything, and therefore look like they can barely afford a $500 apartment.....

[snowman]

Thats the ONLY advantage the self employed have, to live beyond their apparent means.

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by snowman

Thats the ONLY advantage the self employed have, to live beyond their apparent means.

Word!

You know you are playing it when a Hummer or a Porsche is a write off!!

[911Rob]

What?
Luis, really!!!

If you sell homes to multi-millionaires, then you have an image to uphold to mingle with the right crowd. So yes, the Hummer, Porsche AND the Rinker are tax right offs!

I didn't write the tax laws, I just use them to my advantage.

And btw, I personally "could" NEVER pay taxes to the biggest crooks in the world, but I do since I hate being audited. I pay myself just under $60K and my wife $50K annually and pay the tax on it; keeps the wolves away from the door.

this always reminds me of my MIL saying...."Oh and those Rich people that give to charities and then just use it as a write off from their taxes; well what's the point in that?" Some people have NO concept! Live and Learn man, Live and Learn.

TTYL,
Cheers,