You’re talking semantics here. Why such focus on what you call the thing? Transitional species have some features of one creature and some of another, just like our DNA is very, very close to ape DNA.

You say “Any transitional species is either one or the other, not both.” Well, in name only, but other than that, that statement is not correct. Transitional species have some characteristics of each species. Who cares what the name is? It’s the characteristics that matter, and when you are talking characteristics, the statement “Any transitional species is either one or the other, not both” is incorrect. The correct statement would be “transitional species share characteristics of two different species.”

You seem to understand the process with this statement: “I have as firm a grasp of this as any, however, at some finite point in time the offspring will be 50.0000001% bird,” but you are still focused on the name, when you finish that sentence with “and a scientist examining it would then be forced to look at it and say, Bird.”

That’s not correct, but who cares what you call it? It’s still 50.1% bird and 49.9% reptile. The one before it was the reverse, and you called it the other thing. So what? In actuality, a scientist wouldn’t call it a bird; it would have its own species name, which would be a species with 50.1% bird characteristics and 49.9% reptile characteristics.

In this case, these particular transitional species exist only in fossil record. They all have scientific species names. There is no species called “bird.” I don’t know, and it doesn’t really matter, when you call it a bird. The point of the matter is that transitional species share characteristics of both species. It doesn’t matter when you call one a bird.

To me it is not "god of the gaps". I do not believe in a creator simply because I cannot explain a gap in my knowledge. I believe in a creator because fairly extensive study of the human body has led me to that belief.

And you are correct in that I am not one of the "mainstream" ID proponents, however again I wonder how many of the people in the US who believe in a creator fall under the ideological realm of those who make the most noise. I suspect that as in most things, those who are making the most noise about ID are the most radicalized and don't represent the views of the majority.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm

I thought this article might stimulate discussion a little.

A platypus walks into a bar and tells the bartender,"Got any grapes?" The bartender says ,"No, now go away!." The platypus walks int othe bar again and says, "Got any grapes?" The bartender says,"No and if you ask me that one more time I'll staple your webbed feet into the floor!" The platypus walks into the bar again and says,"Do you have any staples?" And the bartender says,"No." Then the platypus says,"Got any grapes?"

Sorry....not many platypus jokes out there...

Interesting. Pretty much every study shows an inverse correlation between both intelligence and belief and education and belief. You are in the minority, needless to say.

Care to elaborate on what aspect of your study has led to your belief?

Well put!

Well said!!!

How is this not a god of gaps? It appears at the very least to be an "argument from incredulity".
It is interesting as I have had just the opposite experience. The more I have learned about human anatomy, physiology, and pathophysiology the more I see human biology as an extension through evolution to the rest of the animal kingdom and all of life. No where do I perceive design, rather, the opposite. Most of the human body appears somewhat hap-hazard and jury-rigged from simpler/primitive precursors.

A person should indeed know their limitations! Lacking a degree of any kind certainly limits ones knowledge and their opinions must be weighted accordingly. Calling knowledgeable peoples opinions that of Santa or the tooth fairy is very telling. Usually an atheist or fairy nice person has this point of view for selfish reasons. It is not an argument bearing any weight whatsoever, ie ZERO contribution to the discussion at hand.

On the other hand, someone who deals with mother nature every day, eq an engineer, scientist (a real scientist like a physicist, molecular scientist, nuclear scientist, not some kind of so called social scientist) that deals with real problems and confronts mother nature every day, knows a lot about what is possible, what may or may not be real and so forth. Bottom line we all know mother nature is a bitccch and we deal with her accordingly.

So called scientists, eg social scientists, are usually the ones that present ridiculous ideas about nature. Why? Because they have no check on their ideas, they are free to roam about and no one can prove anything, right or wrong. Real scientists deal with real problems and mother nature constantly reminds them when they are right or wrong. Consequently they tend to develop ideas that are consistent with reality They are also usually open to all ideas, at least at first, because mother nature has shown them the way and bit them in the butt enough to keep them straight.

The worst, and most worthless ideas come from politicians. They are consistently wrong and no one can convince them other wise. Politicians are leading the so called science or whatever, because they hold the key to the treasure. So called scientists, in pursuit of the buck, do their bidding, in hopes of grabbing more bucks, that simple. Only real scientists are open to ideas that present themselves. Real scientists will forgo the buck, to find the truth, because that is their goal in live, to find the truth, why do things REALLY work, not how to make things go YOUR way, for your benefit.

Sounds like you have been listening to Steven Weinberg lately.:D

Yes, BOW to the snowman!!! He is the Creator. The Creator of.... You know, you seem to be intelligent, you MUST know what I am the Creator of.

snow peas?

The anti science people here are very religious. Their religion is to reject any science that disagrees with their world view point. Stifling any other viewpoint is their goal. Why? Because it is contrary to their chosen lifestyle.

Bigoted, ignorant bull****, mostly. Or champagne comedy.

Not snow pee?

Yes, there is an argument! Life clearly is the result of a designer. Any true scientist will agree with that. Was the designer a GOD? That answer is a religious one. And if the designer was not a GOD, then where did the designers come from? There is no answer to that one. There is however events in our history that a God is the designer, These events are FACTS. A person, claiming to be of God came to us, died and then arose, these are historical FACTS. Facts that are verified by multiple witnesses, of doubters, or non beleivers. History does not have other examples of reserection, just one and that is A FACT! You can deny that this occurred, but you would be wrong. It did and its all we have to go by.

So what do we have? We have the presence of a people, who have a God. A God that presented himself to all of us, worked many miracles, and claimed to be the son of GOD.

On the other hand we have ...NOTHING. Just the self serving accounts of atheists, fags and the like. All have a personal reason to discount a creator.They are afraid that they are wrong, and will be condemned to hell. The religious may be correct, so they fight any possible description of creation that may condemn them. They will fight science no matter what science comes up with, they are biased to the point of condemning any science that is contrary to their world view point, that simple.

This thread shows their bias.

There is evidence that a creator exists! It is US, we are here. Explain where we came form otherwise!

In the beginning there were only two: Tawa, the Sun God, and Spider Woman (Kokyanwuhti), the Earth Goddess. All the mysteries and the powers in the Above belonged to Tawa, while Spider Woman controlled the magic of the Below. There was neither man nor woman, bird nor beast, no living thing until these Two willed it to be. In time they decided there should be other gods to share their labors, so Tawa divided himself and there came Muiyinwuh, God of All Life Germs and Spider Woman divided herself and there came Huzruiwuhti, Woman of the Hard Substances (turquoise, silver, coral, shell,etc.). Huzruiwuhti became the wife of Tawa and with him produced Puukonhoya, the Youth, and Palunhoya, the Echo, and later, Hicanavaiya, Man-Eagle, Plumed Serpent and many others. Then did Tawa and Spider Woman have the Great Thought, they would make the Earth to be between the Above and the Below. As Tawa thought the features of the Earth, Spider women formedthem from clay. Then did Tawa think of animals and beasts and plants, all the while Spider Woman formed them from the clay. At last they decided they had enough, then they made great magic and breathed life into their creatures. Now Tawa decided they should make creatures in their image to lord over all the rest. Spider Woman again formed them from clay. Again the Two breathed life into their creations. Spider Woman called all the people so created to follow where she led. Through all the Four Great Caverns of the Underworld she led them, until they finally came to an opening, a sipapu, which led to the earth above.

I think that explains it pretty well.

Gosh ive missed you. "Just the self serving accounts of atheists, fags and the like". Fantastic.

"Life clearly is the result of a designer. Any true scientist will agree with that." Please name some significant scientists (who are not associated Behe and the whatever its called institute) that say this.

And BTW, your argument, and I use the term loosley, immediately produces this question. Who designed the Designer?

The Earth mother, "Coatlique", the Lady of the Skirt of Snakes, was decorated with skulls, snakes, and lacerated hands. At first she was whole without cracks in her body -- a perfect monolith (a totality of intensity and self-containment, yet her features were square and decapitated). Coatlique was first impregnated by an obsidian knife and gave birth to Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, and to a group of male offspring, who became the stars.

Then one day Coatlique found a ball of feathers, which she tucked into her bosom. When she looked for it later, it was gone, at which time she realized that she was again pregnant. Her children, the moon and stars did not believe her story. Ashamed of their mother, they resolved to kill her. A goddess can only give birth to a litter of divinity once. During the time that they were plotting her demise, Coatlique gave birth to the fiery god of war, Huitzilopochtli. With the help of a fire serpent, he destroyed his brothers and sister, murdering them in a rage. He beheaded Coyolxauhqui and threw her body into a deep gorge in a mountain, where it lies dismembered forever.

This precipitated a great civil war in heaven which crumbled to pieces. Coatlique fell and was fertilized, while her children were torn apart by fratricide and them scattered and disjointed throughout the universe. Who remained were Ometecutli and his wife Omecihuatl that created life. Their children were: Xipe Totec the god of spring, Huitzilopochtli the Sun god, Quetzalcoatl the "light one" and "plumed serpent", and Tezcatlipoca, the "dark one" and god of night and sorcery.

Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca saw that whatever they created was eaten by Coatlique who floated in the abyss eating everything with her many mouths. To stop her, they changed into two serpents and descended into the water. One grabbed the goddess by the arms while the other grabbed her by the legs, and before she could resist they pulled her apart into different pieces. Her head and shoulders became the earth and the lower part of her body the sky.

The other deities were angry at what the two had done and decided, as compensation for her dismemberment, to allow her to provide the necessities for people to survive; so from her hair they created trees, grass, and flowers; caves, fountains, and wells from her eyes; rivers from her mouth; hills and valleys from her nose; and mountains from her shoulders.

Still the goddess was often unhappy and the people could hear her crying in the night. They knew she wept because of her thirst for human blood, and that she would not provide food from the soil until she drank. So the gift of human hearts is given her. She who provides sustenance for human lives demands human lives for her own sustenance.