G4 PowerMac questions

[JavaBrewer]

So I saved a G4 Powermac from our company's bone yard. I have it home now to play with and after booting with an internet connection I did a software update to the latest patch for OS-X 10.4 (now currently patch 11). I also updated Firefox to 2.0. So...the machine is really slow just running a browser. Here are the specs of the box:

Machine Name: Power Mac G4
Machine Model: PowerMac3,3
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (2.9)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 450 MHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 1 MB
Memory: 640 MB
Bus Speed: 100 MHz

So the memory really sticks out as a culprit. Current specs are:

DIMM0 256 MB SDRAM PC133-333
DIMM1 256 MB SDRAM PC133-333
DIMM2 128 MB SDRAM PC100-222S
DIMM3 EMPTY

I went to a website for Mac memory and it says the max memory supported is 2GB of PC100. Is that right? Obviously I have 133 RAM in this thing and it seems to work. So the big question is...would I see a big jump in speed going to 4 512MB DIMMs ($200 worth of RAM) or should I just play with the thing and be happy. The box will be used as a iTunes and Web client for the wife and kids.

Thanks...from a Mac newb.

[stevepaa]

usually the PC133 will step down to PC100.

You will not see a big jump in speed with more memory, but some small improvement.
Not sure why it is slow in browser mode. That sounds strange. You might consider dropping back to OS 9.2.2

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58418

You have the Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)

Although 2 GB can be physically installed, a maximum of 1.5 GB is recognized by Mac OS 9. Mac OS X will see the entire 2 GB.

[Alan Cottrill]

iTunes won't happen with 9.2.2, and there are no modern browsers for 9.2.2 either. (except for icab, but it's limited and renders pages funky)

when you say it is slow running a browser, do you mean that pages load slowly, or does the machine slow down, like switching between applications and such? you should get a utility to check your memory status. I'd be willing to bet you're not running out of memory.

I'm afraid even after throwing $200 worth of RAM at that machine you'd still be disappointed with the performance.

just for the heck of it try running it without that 128mb stick. sometimes less is more...

[lfot]

Depends on what your definition of slow is, but...

It's a dual 450... it is slow by almost anything in use today.
My oldest computer is a dual 1Gig, and that's tolerable. My dual 2.0 G5 is ok. I can't imagine using a dual 450 with current versions of OSX. I'd rather watch toast sit on a counter top soaking butter until it's dry as when it came out of the toaster.

But if it's just going to be an iTunes jukebox, it should be fine.

[Sapporo Guy]

you might want to step down to 10.3

I seem to remember that 10.3 ran a bit better on older machines ...

The amount of ram inside is doable ... I did the same amount with a G3 400 and was fairly happy back when

But you might consider putting 256 x4 in the machine. I'd save the money by not maxing out the ram.

How bad is your HD? If it's the original, I save the money from the ram and put in a decent speedy drive and you'd be much happier Those older drives are really pokey ...

[stevepaa]

I still use a powerbook at 500mhz and it performs quite well using explorer 5.1 on 9.2.2 It has 1 gig of memory

http://www.welovemacs.com/apg445gduprp.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hynix-512MB-2x-256MB-PC133-SDRAM-168pin-Low-Density_W0QQitemZ330219445260QQihZ014QQcategoryZ14 913QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
for two 265mg memory

I can send you one of these and a 128mb to see if it helps. PM me.

[JavaBrewer]

Ok it was a big improvement to step down to OS-X 10.3. No other software installed after a fresh OS install and query for updates from the apple site. I'm running Safari thus far and no issues, wife and kids can browse and check email, so for now downloading Firefox is on hold.

I agree that the best $$/value option is to go with 256 mb chips. What about the hard drive? It currently has a single 30 GB drive with the OS and another 40 GB drive that I threw in to test. I read that the older machines don't do big drives (you get 128GB) but what if I upgrade the main drive to a newer drive and just accept the lost space? Would that speed it up even though it's talking to a slower bus? Oh and the two USB ports are 1.0 so I'd also like to install a USB 2.0 PCI card. Any recommendations?

Yes yes this is a butt old machine. I have zero dollars in it so far and am more playing than anything. I'll spend max $200 to buy it a couple more years life. This is my first exposure to Mac since my college days. I have to admit the OS is pretty nice though I'm struggling with *intuitive* apps like iPhoto. I was challenged trying to downsize a picture with that tool - I'm spoiled with the TweakUI right click resize on XP.

[stevepaa]

I've got some spare drives. Let me check on their size.

[JavaBrewer]

Thanks Steve. I just saw this PCI SATA card and realized I have a spare 250GB SATA drive in a server I just took apart. If replace the old drives with this card and my SATA drive could I put the boot OS on it? This setup would surely speed up the box...right?

[stevepaa]

That should work. I think you can you just add the drive without removing the old one. I have a later verison of your machine, 867mhz, and I have two SATA and two ATA drives in it. Partition the drive in two parts 125 gb each and install OS on one.

[Alan Cottrill]

Be careful upgrading this machine. Macs are notorious money pits. (I say this as an owner of a really cool collection of highly upgraded Macs). You should consider how much you could get for this machine as is on Craigslist and take that money and the money you'd throw at this one upgrading it. You may find that you have enough to purchase a nice 1.6 - 1.8Ghz G5 powermac (they sell on ebay regularly around $600).

The problem I've had is that for some reason I develop emotional connections with these machines and get sucked into trying to extend their service life. Just something to consider.

[JavaBrewer]

Well I'm nearing that crossroad Alan...Spend $325 for a 1.8 Ghz CPU upgrade, 1 GB bump of RAM, and a Pioneer Superdrive or sell and spend $600-$700 for a used G5. My goal is to be able run OS X 10.4 or 10.5 (so that my daughter's silly iPod nano video will work) and run iTunes/Internet/Videos/Pictures. Nothing fancy but I've grown sorta attached to the G4 box...

Edit - so far I have $50 in the G4. The SATA PCI card works great. I took out the dinasour drives and the machine runs really quiet. I also added a USB 2.0 PCI card for all the devices and it works great to.

[Alan Cottrill]

Get the G5. They are awesome machines. Don't be like me. I'd upgrade the G4 and buy the G5. Just like Porsche cars, Macs can be addictive.

[Mule]

Regardless of what it will be 10,000 time better than the best pc. Keep on rockin' in the free world!

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by Alan Cottrill

Get the G5. They are awesome machines. Don't be like me. I'd upgrade the G4 and buy the G5. Just like Porsche cars, Macs can be addictive.

Dang it! I was watching a G4 MDD with a 1.8 CPU/2.0 GB RAM upgrade on Ebay but got sidetracked and missed the close. Sold for $220... Not much else of interest there right now.

About the G5 power mac...they are really selling in the $700 range used on Ebay. Seems pretty steep considering a refurbished Intel iMac can be had for $1000. I'm worried about spending that kind of money on a G5 powered Mac. So running Leopard what sort of "seat of pants" user experience would I expect between a 1.8 CPU & video card upgrade on my G4 vs. going with a standard 1.6 G5 powermac vs. a refurb intel iMac? I like the mini but am worried about lack of expansion.

[nostatic]

I wouldn't bother with a processor upgrade. Or the RAM upgrade for that matter. Either run it as-is or get a used/refurb Intel Mac.

My take with these is to max out the RAM when you buy it and then don't touch it. After some number of years, sell it as-is and buy a new machine. I'm still running a dual G5 at home and probably won't sell it for another year or three. I just buy more external hard drives. My MacBook Pro runs way faster than it though. I still have a Ti book but will never sell that, even though I haven't booted it in probably 2 years.

[stomachmonkey]

Sorry, happy here.

Just finished configuring the SW on vmy new 17 in MacBook Pro.

Got it with the 1920x1200 resolution display. 2.6 Core Duo.

Feels like they are trying a new finish on the keyboard.

Feels like it has a really fine grit to it. Feels odd but you have more grip on the keys as you type. Think I like it.

[JavaBrewer]

Well after much thought...I pulled the trigger on a dual 1.8 Ghz Power Mac. Ebay no less. Not blazing speed for sure but hopefully robust. I just can't get into an integrated system like iMac or mini. First iMac seem to have loads of issues, G5 machines mostly, but some of the Intel ones as well. The mini is attractive but is not upgradeable and has laptop speed components. Once you start adding the cost of a firewire 7200 RPM drive, memory, it's not *cheap* anymore. EVERYONE I have spoken to said it's imperetive to invest in Applecare for a new Mac. There's another $200. Suddenly this machine get's very expensive.

So I dropped $615 on the G5 PM. I sold the free G5 iMac for $300 and will sell my freeG4 PM for ~ $100. The story unfolds... I like the Mac OS X but honestly it's very very similar to the various Linux distributions I've been playing with on my older P4 system.

I have to hand it to Apple though. I've been following Craigs list and Ebay and Apple machines get crazy resale value. Like a 2 yr old Intel iMac goes for $850 when you can buy a new one for $1200 (minus the REQUIRED Applecare of course). PC machines...not so good...

[stomachmonkey]

You do not necc. need Applecare.

Boxes are fully warranted for a year.

If you have "bug" issues they'll show up in the first few months.

Just had my 1st gen MacBook Pro in for service. 2 yr old box.

Had to stop short and it flew of the seat and was prevented from further flight by hitting the dash and crashing onto the floor.

F'd up the screen a bit but was still functional.

Dropped it at my Apple store and used the "Flat Repair Rate", they will fix anything and everything for a flat rate.

It cost me $335 to fix what was originally a $3,500 box.

Box went out to repair facility in Houston and was back in 5 days.

For my $335 they replaced the logic board and LCD.

Pretty good deal.