Not only that, but this God is a bit of a show-off. A less flashy God would have simply put more gasoline in their tank.

Indeed.

Perfectly said.

Hellllooooooooooooooooooo!

2 guys in a plane ain't nothin but a parlor trick. You want show-off...

how's this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1211567815.jpg





or how about sending your son to die on a cross for the sins of humanity

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1211567935.jpg

and

By even asking the question, you are implying that "intervention" is a possible explanation. What leads you to believe that "intervention" is even an option? Because you think that god does intervene on occasions?

To me, taking an occurrence like this and interpreting it as evidence of the existence of god is like saying that you're going to flip a coin and every time it comes up heads that is an indication that god exists and every time it comes up tails that is an indication that god doesn't exist. You then flip the coin 100 times and pronounce, "Look! It came up heads 50 times!! Look at the evidence that god exists!" while totally ignoring the 50 times it came up tails.

I think coincidence is a more likely scenario than "some benevolent supernatural being chose to save these poor souls because he felt bad for not saving those is Myanmar and China recently". :)

Of course intervention is a possible answer. It's only an IMpossible answer in your own mind. I wasn't there, neither were you. I make no conclusions about the event other than to ask if it was simple coincidence. The ones making the conclusions are yourself and others on the thread.

And I never said, and still do not say, that this event is evidence of God's existence. I simply pointed out that if this WERE in fact a case of divine intervention that you and the others on the thread would be discounting it before you even looked into it.

You're right. It makes no sense to even assume that this could be a possible case of divine intervention when we have no evidence that there has ever been a case of divine intervention. Other than wishful thinking...

I would discount it before even looking at it, you're right. For the same reason I would discount that Xenu saved these guys. But that's just me.

It may have been a divine coincidence?

Two guys in a 6 cyl ragtop were decapitated when a sheet metal roadsign was blown off its pole by a dust devil. It was an old route 66 roadsign. Considering that it was a dust devil, it could well have been a diabolical coincidence.

Whoa! 6 cyl, route 66......666!

My point exactly. So stop asking for proof, you wouldn't accept it even if it were presented.

See?

I didn't ask for proof. You said that divine intervention could have been a factor in the outcome of this aircraft mishap. That's a pretty extraordinary claim that would seem to require extraordinary evidence to support it. Yet you offer nothing more than "it could have been - I wasn't there" and go on to claim it to be a "knee jerk" reaction to assume that this was nothing more than a coincidence. :confused:

I think the "counterpoint" to your point is that, in your case, no amount of evidence or logic will convince you of the folly of your purely emotion-based belief system. Occam's Razor indicates that this was merely a coincidence, why reach for something more?

See? You're just as entrenched in your belief system as I am in my system of non-belief.

There it is -> God as a simple outlier.

Best,

I'm not talking about this specific scenario. I'm talking about the greater "Is there a God" discussion that we had a few weeks ago. The one where you (and others) kept asking for proof of God's existence. I said it then that no amount of proof would ever be enough because you wouldn't accept it as proof. There would always be some other reason that you would take before thinking that it was proof of a higher power. I think this thread shows that pretty clearly.

And I never said I WASN'T entrenched in my belief system. I have no problem with the idea that I have faith in something that I cannot prove scientifically. That's cool with me. I have no problem with people not believing in a higher power. That's cool too. I just wish this silly "prove it" argument would fall by the wayside, where it belongs.

There is no such thing as coincidence, you may however, believe whatever you wish, you are free to do so. Does it make you feel better to belittle those who hold to spiritual beliefs or are you so insecure and arrogant that you must attempt to prove your supreme intellect? I pity you, what a pathetic and empty life you must lead.

Rick:

I sincerely don't think Mike or anyone else who was asking for proof would reject real evidence which might prove a deity.

This airplane thing does not even begin to approach any semblance of evidence of a deity and serves as a very poor example to gage one's threshold of proof, IMO.

I believe your apparent assumption, based on this example, that me or most everyone else who has participated in these discussions would automatically reject any bona-fide evidence of a creator out of hand, is incorrect.

FWIW.

Oh boy, another one! :rolleyes:

Jim,

If by another one, you mean a beliver and follower of Jesus Christ, you bet! Proud of it, wish you were too.

Care to join me? :)

,mn,.mn

Blk911:

Rick and the gang are all willing participants in this discussion. :)

Some folks find it stimulating, I do at least, to debate with folks who they disagree with. Sometimes I even learn something.

If these discussions anger you, offend you or insult your beliefs, then perhaps this isn't the best place for you to be?

Making judgments on non-believer's lives, which you know nothing of, does not seem appropriate, IMO.

Lets see....

We have a grassy field. That means dirt and grass.
We have a man-made jesus sign, people and gasoline from the people.

If God made earth, which is dirt and all things on it.
Man made the jesus sign and the gasoline to get them home safely, why are they thankful for the sign and not the dirt and grass to land upon.

I'm a believer and follower of Jesus Christ too. Don't you agree that religion gets in the way of his message?