We're debating the new potato skins religion. Fatty v. yummy. The battle lines are now drawn and combat will ensue! :D

For one, religious nutjobs won't be trying to hold back scientific progress; case in point: stem cell research.

My point was that the Greek/Roman deities were imaginary. Are you saying that, as human society, we simply replace one set of imaginary deities with others once the old ones run their course? What I'm getting at is that they're all equally imaginary. There have been thousands of gods and goddesses at one time or another. No one argues that the vast majority of them were imaginary. To paraphrase a famous quote - we're all atheists to some degree - you just believe in more god than I do.

Heliocentric v. geocentric view of our solar system. The Catholic Church outlawed heliocentric views as heresy.

Do you really need me to point out examples of existing theocracies, and closer to home, examples of the American religious right trying to exert influence/control in government?

http://www.theocracywatch.org/

I heard Isis is a hottie.

http://www.ancient-egypt-online.com/images/isis.jpg

Speechless, yet interested...


KT

Trekkor, you must wash it down with a quality beer. Distillates are heresy!

Just one would be acceptable. There are NONE! ( yet )


KT

Widebody, there are aspects of scientific research that need to be tempered with an examination as to the moral lines it crosses. Our own government has conducted research that has stretched those bounds (not to mention the Nazi's) eliminating that debate may not be healthy for society regardless of the advances made. You may not believe that "religious nutjobs" are the ones to raise this debate, but for now that is the part of society that is willing to take on that particular burden.

Jim are you arguing against the rule of law, or saying that the Christian church is why we still adhere to a geocentric view of the solar system?

IROC, I'm saying that religion has had a part in human society, and not an insignificant one. You want human society to abandon religion, I think you need to prove the benefit of eliminating a tool evolution has given to this species.

Taz, I'm saying, the Catholic Church suppressed human development for centuries. It was in response to your post:

ahhh...Iran
as is Vatican city
and honestly..Israel is too i would think, as are many of the Mid East countries like Saudi arabia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy#Current_states_with_theocratic_aspects

and they say conservatives are fear mongers
You base this idea on what exactly? A planned move to a country that does not have a constitution that prohibits this?
So all that dough California is giving to researchers, no strings attached, is holding progress back somehow. You could turn this around and say the religious nutjobs are holding back the tide of atrocities that are likely to persist and increase without them. Case in point, partial birth abortions(and I am pro choice)

Iran pretty much is
see Nick, we are not that far apart. Okay Thom, that is still just one, Iran

KT, I said something about when people are up against it medically, and they have friends and family praying for them, they do better. Prayer being beneficial if you will. Seemed to be in pretty good shape until I made that mistake

Sorry about that chief

In fairness, you may be right. There are quite a few people who have all but admitted in these threads that their fear of hell is the only thing keeping them in check. Eliminate that "check" and we might have a lot of lawlessness to deal with. After all, it has been claimed numerous times by the believers that without religion, there are no morals - no "right" and "wrong". I personally don't believe this, but obviously many people do.

It's a shame, but you're probably right. Many people need religion.

Jim you are correct, and religious opression continues. But showing that religion does not have an entirely beneficial impact on human society is not the same as proving that it does not have an overall beneficial impact on human society, or that eliminating religion from human society would not have a significant negative impact.

IROC, I would say that evolution has provided us with the tool of a belief in God not because "many people" need religion, but because human society needs religion.

Theocracy is a government by God, not a religion or religious group.

There is currently NO theocracy in place. As in none.


KT

Taz, I threw out an example in order to respond to your request. I realize it's not a sufficient proof. I would love to see man reach that point in his history where superstition and magic and fear are no longer needed rein in his behavior. Unfortunately, we're still too primative. I "believe" religion is holding us back, to some extent.

widebody, often (as in the case of Iran, and the Taliban) the theocracy is not formed by religion integrating with the current form of government, but rather in violent opposition to a corrupt and opressive government