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drag racing the short bus
 
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Didja see what happened on the Stock Market today?

The DOW fell almost 400 points, oil went up almost $11. Part of the stock market falling was due to today's unemployment figures. But the spike in oil - the largest single spike in history - is blamed on Goldman-Sachs prediction of $150 a barrel by July 4th, and Israel's saber rattling at Iran. Iran, after all, controls 25% of the world's oil flow.

One analyst went so far as to say, "Maybe we should bomb Israel."

Personally, I think we should get our bicycle tires pumped up.

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Old 06-06-2008, 01:23 PM
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things are not looking good...more economic depression / desperation is on its way, than any other time in my lifetime.
Old 06-06-2008, 01:25 PM
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oh, my stock portfolio saw it all right...
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:26 PM
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luckily I don't need to access my retirement accounts for another 20+ years.

I don't even look at the market. What little money I have is in CDs in the bank. The only stocks are managed by TIAA-CREF.
Old 06-06-2008, 01:28 PM
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Oh, but haven't you heard? It's all really just a big left-wing liberal media conspiracy! Things are really just fine. This is all just fear mongering on the part of the haters of George Bush. Things are poised for recovery, especially in housing. It's never been a better time to buy, BUY, B-U-Y!!! So get out there and spend! Everything will be fine, you'll see!

I've been saying this for months now, but it's 1974/5 all over again, right down to the lousy fashion trends and mostly lousy music. Trouble in Iran, gas prices going out of control, an idiot in the White House who can't extract his head from his ass, a perpetual quagmire of a war, a nation of imbiciles driving gas-guzzlers, housing prices that are completely beyond the reach of normal people, an imploding job market, etc.

Add to that the fact that American manufacturing is being systematically exterminated by the Chinese, we're running the biggest budget deficit in our history, the dollar is crashing against the Euro and Yen and we're about to elect a socialist to the White House who will tax the living schit out of the few hardworking, high-earning Americans still left here and things are lookin' just peachy, aren't they?
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Last edited by Porsche-O-Phile; 06-06-2008 at 02:04 PM..
Old 06-06-2008, 01:46 PM
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Well, at least for Israel, let's hope they're just posturing. Nuking Iran will only result in the country closing its oil port. That means a predicted $500 a barrel for all of us.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:55 PM
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would developing and implementing alternative fuels/energy sources be benefical right about now? should have been developed 15 years ago, and could have... as usual corp. greed and corrupt gov. is to blame... will things change now? where will things be in another 15 years? still relying on oil...global warming running rampant?

Hey I like the sound of an air cooled 911...but there has to be another way.
Old 06-06-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic dB View Post
would developing and implementing alternative fuels/energy sources be benefical right about now? should have been developed 15 years ago, and could have... as usual corp. greed and corrupt gov. is to blame... will things change now? where will things be in another 15 years? still relying on oil...global warming running rampant?

Hey I like the sound of an air cooled 911...but there has to be another way.
Carter tried to develop the syn fuels program and it would have been very expensive. But.....we would be in a different position today if it had gone through.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile View Post
Oh, but haven't you heard? It's all really just a big left-wing liberal media conspiracy! Things are really just fine. This is all just fear mongering on the part of the haters of George Bush. Things are poised for recovery, especially in housing. It's never been a better time to buy, BUY, B-U-Y!!! So get out there and spend! Everything will be fine, you'll see!

I've been saying this for months now, but it's 1974/5 all over again, right down to the lousy fashion trends and mostly lousy music. Trouble in Iran, gas prices going out of control, an idiot in the White House who can't extract his head from his ass, a perpetual quagmire of a war, a nation of imbiciles driving gas-guzzlers, housing prices that are completely beyond the reach of normal people, an imploding job market, etc.

Add to that the fact that American manufacturing is being systematically exterminated by the Chinese, we're running the biggest budget deficit in our history, the dollar is crashing against the Euro and Yen and we're about to elect a socialist to the White House who will tax the living schit out of the few hardworking, high-earning Americans still left here and things are lookin' just peachy, aren't they?
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:02 PM
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I don't want to just sit here and point fingers but I agree with Dan. Carter was a much-reviled guy in his time and is still vilified by many today as a "bad president". However, his unpopularity stems from the point that he (to his credit) had the balls to stand up and admit we had a problem back then. People wanted none of it. They wanted the cushy lifestyles they were accustomed to and didn't want to hear about "sacrifice" or wearing sweaters in the winter. They wanted to just pretend it all didn't exist.

Then Reagan got elected and gave 'em exactly what they wanted - a feel-good presidency with grandpa.

I'll never forget (I was young, but I still remember it) when Reagan took office one of the very first actions he took was to rip the solar panels off the White House roof (installed under Carter). Don't want to make this Reagan-bashing, but that alone said something about his attitude towards forward-thinking, environmentalism and sustainable choices for America.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:06 PM
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I knocked on doors for Carter back in '76. I thought he was a very smart guy, and while most here think he was the "worst ever" I think that he inherited a mess and got unlucky with the hostages.

People don't want to hear the truth. They don't want to hear about conserving or sacrifice. They want to hear about lowering taxes and lower gas prices and what's on sale at Walmart.
Old 06-06-2008, 04:32 PM
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Does that sound like a good investment project... try and identify the companies that are/will be leading the way with alternative energy sources and innovations and put your money there?

Just like I should have invested in condoms and bottled water back in the 80s...
Old 06-06-2008, 06:07 PM
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Why are companies not investing in these things on their own?

They should need no motivation to do what would be profitable....
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:08 PM
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Companies aren't investing in such things because it makes no sense to the leaders of the companies. CEO's rarely lead for more than 5 years. Board members are usually near to retirement. It isn't that they don't care, it's just that they don't look that far down the road.

Maybe they shouldn't. If they spend too much time on "down the road" they'll be run out of business in a few years by competitors. In our society, a company can't be in the red for decades in order to prove some future technology. Only government is more or less guaranteed to be here in 30, 50, 100 years, so they are the natural ones to look that far ahead.

I run a company. And I can tell you that company time frames are not the same as a a nation's time frames. I have to answer to a Board, and I am lucky to have them think about the future at all - but that future is 5 years down the road - when most of them will be retired. I'm 42, and am looking 25-30 years down the road - a really long time for a company leader to be thinking.

But I still need to worry about tomorrow way more than a Senator or President or government bureaucrat does...

As much as we all hate it sometimes, government has a place in our lives. It can do things no one else can do - whether it is protecting us from foreign aggression, or from our own capitalistic shortcomings.

Last edited by RKC; 06-06-2008 at 06:26 PM..
Old 06-06-2008, 06:21 PM
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And, BTW, there was just an article in the Economist or WSJ about the US Military starting a synfuel program. Seems it can be made at about $8 a gallon - maybe cheaper if mass produced. So, if we play our cards right, there is a limit to the heights that gas can reach.

This was talking about the WWII technology of the German program, so I'd bet there's some way to get it cheaper still with some efforts.

Technology is picking up - solar, synfuel, wind, waves - we're going to have to feel it awhile first, of course - maybe it is like the 70's - but we'll come out better and leaner and cleaner on the other side of this mess.

Even Wallace Stegner knew we weren't dumb enough to completely ruin the earth before we woke up....

Synfuel made by a 1920's German process for my 1980's 911 while the rest of my cars use whatever's next? I could live with that!
Old 06-06-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
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Technology is picking up - solar, synfuel, wind, waves - we're going to have to feel it awhile first, of course - maybe it is like the 70's - but we'll come out better and leaner and cleaner on the other side of this mess.

That is the good that I hope comes out of this. Energy is the foundation of our morden economy, silly that we are not as diversified as we should be.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:27 PM
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One of the best things that could happen to our country is $200 oil. In the short term it would teach us again to be frugal and save. In the long term we would deelop alternative energy and become energy independent.
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:57 AM
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Do you really believe that this country will learn? Sure, many of us on this board are smart enough to take real action. But the "rank and file?" I think there's a lot of people out there who believe they're entitled to low gas prices, nice houses, and big screen TVs. These are the people, you'll recall, who thought that "interest only no documentation loans" were a great idea.

I appreciate your faith in humanity, but I'm rapidly losing my confidence that this country can pull it together, collectively. Do I believe that we could do pretty well in nuclear, solar, wind, et al and get off foreign oil? Yeah, largely. Do I believe that this country has the motivation to do so? No. We've lost the edge.

Just my $.02.

Dan
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:26 AM
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No meaningful energy policy, a spineless Congress, not so helpful oil producers, and a worldwide oil demand economy and fuel prices go up.

If you follow past oil spikes then you'll see how prices fall 50-75% after the spikes.



btw.. it's low sulfur crude demanded for clean air that's the supply issue. High sulfur crude is in abundance.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:07 AM
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We've never had the "motivation" to do anything. We've always had the incentive to innovate and achieve. The energy crisis now is the result of not spending money developing alternative forms of energy. We didn't not develop alternative energy because we lost our edge, we stopped doing it because it didn't make economic sense when oil was at $60 a bbl. With oil at $120 it does make sense. With it at $200 it makes a lot o sense. One of the best things for our country is to have $200 bbl oil, and if the price comes down, slap on an import tax to make up the difference. Budget deficits fall, ballance of trade rights, and alternative energy becomes comercially viable. That's how the government creates incentive and fosters innovation.

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Old 06-07-2008, 06:18 AM
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