Why does personal change have to be so hard?
 

I'm not going to bore you with the details of what I am trying to change. Nothing exciting. Anger management.

Why does it have to so g-damn hard? Once you get into your 30s, the material we make out lives out of is damn resistant to change. Add a spouse to the mix who expects you to behave in a certain (bad) manner. When you start to have some success, she has conditioned responses that are just a difficult to change as the original problem.

There is progress, but the steps are slow and heavy.

Maybe you could elaborate/bore us with some details anyhow? Sounds intriguing!

anger and pain are the same thing. Failed expectations provide mental pain, and that's when you get angry. People who react badly to anger are people who can't handle mental pain. It's a reaction to failed expectations, which are usually unreasonable to begin with. Examine your expectations of others, and realize that you are probably starting from an unreasonable point of view of others.

There is an experiment I do with my twin nephews. I take a wooden toothpick, and tell one of them to put his hand down on the table. I poke his hand continuously and repeatedly with the toothpick. Does that hurt? "yes". Continue poking. 10 seconds later: "does that still hurt?" "Yes"... By now, he is very uncomfortable. I stop for a while. "does it stil hurt?" "yes". Now I tell him the point of the excercise. "look" I say "if you do NOTHING then the pain will go away on it's own. You don't have to do anything. Just have faith that the pain will go away, and wait for it to feel better". Then I explain the same thing is true of mental pain, or anger. But with anger, people try to eliminate that mental pain by lashing out and hurting others in order to feel better. You don't have to do that, and if you wait for your anger to go away on it's own, then you won't have to deal with what you would have done to lash out at others when you were angry.

The second point: you can't do anything to eliminate pain. Life includes pain. Life is not all about pain, but everyone has pain. You have to accept it.

I am glad you are not my uncle. You are cruel.... :D

haha...I should add that they have both gotten kicked out of school several times for fighting. After Mark Jr. got expelled from summer school for fighting, I had to do something. I now work with them every day after school on homework and reading. I should add that I am Japanese, and in my family we can get kind of strict. No way I would have gotten away with that kind of stuff.

I think when/if I ever become a parent I'm going to make my kids shave their heads like the guy on "Kung Fu" and they'll have to pick up red hot iron pots with their bare forearms. When they can pluck the rock from my hand, they can leave the house.....

I will try this tonight with my wife.

What do you mean, "you can't do anything to eliminate pain"?

Why not remove the source of either emotional or physical pain. If it hurts "pain" stop doing it or emotional, remove yourself from that environment.

wooden tootpick = marital aid

Harddrive,

I am no psychologist or what-have-yah. In my opinion, a person is fully developed and almost unchangeable once they are past their teens (i.e., 30s do not make it harder).

How do I manage pain? I attempt to control my environment (especially I choose the people I have around me). I do not hang around people that are:
1. 'angry at the world'
2. Never smile.
3. Cannot comprehend jokes.
4. backstabbers.
5. non-appreciative.
6. free-loader.
7. know-it-all
8. parasites

As for previous girlfriends/wife(ves), they are what they are/were. You could not change them --- AND I AM SURE THEY THINK THE SAME WAY ABOUT YOU/ME.

Never heard it called that before; but not to worry, I have heard from some that size doesn't matter. :D

Cab, that is great advice, but I think some people can change through their lives, if they have been the type of person who seeks out personal growth.

Widgeon, you can't eliminate ALL pain. And to eliminate some pain is only temporary. There is a great scene in one of my favorite movies "Wyatt Earp" with Gene Hackman and Kevin Costner. In the scene, Gene Hackman goes to bail out Kevin Costner, who is arrested after a drunken binge. Wyatt (costner) is in pain, after losing his wife, and he says "it hurts". And the father (Hackman) says "we all have pain. but we don't use it as an excuse to kill ourselves". It does not matter how rich, famous, good looking, or anything a person is. We all have pain.

I ran across a book in a used bookstore called "the new 3 minute meditator" by David Harp.

It was in an old hippie bookstore in San Luis Obispo. I do breathing and meditation with my nephew Jeffrey (Mark's brother), who is hyperactive and scatterbrained. I show him that you can block out everything that you are thinking. You can choose what your mind thinks about. You have some control over your own mind. I hope this helps him later on in life.

"this too shall pass"

Give this a read:

http://www.amazon.com/Start-Where-You-Pema-Chodron/dp/0877738807

You should try going from the toothpick to an icepick...THEN they could really control their anger!!

I don't like foisting my views on others, so I did not mention that the main method I am using to change in Buddhism. It is successful for me, but that may not be true for all. Among the positive benefits, it has allowed me to be more aware of the root causes of my behavior, and allowed me to consciously change my habituated behavior. It works, but it requires work. The positive results keep pushing me along.

to use a Racing analogy....if you are looking at the Walls...you are going to steer in to them.

So, the key is to focus on what you WANT rather than thinking about what you dont want. In other words, the more you think about the negatives, the more you will tend to go in that direction.

We humans, have a subconscious-level guidance system that steers us towards the result...good or bad. Most of us are conditioned to act/react in a certain way based on this guidance system...one that has been implemented into us at an early age and nurtured throughout our lives. The key to personal change and growth, is to change this guidance system to be pointed towards what we WANT.

There are several ways to do this change, as I mentioned above thinking positively on what result you want, and only that... will help, but to facilitate this you should practice visualization. Visualize yourself as already having achieved your desired result. Do this 2 times per day, 15-20 minute sessions...incorporating meditation and learning how to get yourself in a meditative state instantly is something that you can achieve with practice as well.

In your situation, visualize yourself dealing with the situations and people that make you angry, in a calm and rational manner...break those situations down in your mind that trigger the anger and diffuse them by examining them before hand and visualizing your new response to them.

Another area to improve on is the choice of words you use, both verbally and mentally. All should be positive. "cants" and "wonts" shouldnt be a part of your vocabulary. Every talk with someone and all they do is ***** and complain... are these the more successful people? usually not.

A final area that you/we should focus on is the overall quality of our lives. If you are lacking in a particular area, such as physical, mental, addictions etc....these things tend to overwhelm us and dominate or thoughts and actions. For example, a person who wants to lose 15 pounds but is a smoker? you cant have one with the other.. just not going to do it in most cases.

All of these things help to get you to control your subconscious mind...rather than the other way around. If your subscious mind is programed towards negative outcomes, you will steer into these walls every time.

this is difficult... because we need to surround ourselves with like minded people to make positive change OR be very strong-minded and able to block those people's negative influences out. This is very hard to do because you love that person and want them to be a part of your life and experience. The only way to this this, is to have a discussion with her on what you would like to change, why you are doing it...and most importantly what she should expect to see in you, and vice versa during this process. Any rational spouse would see that you are geniune in this and not have a problem with it... if she is not rational, then there will be a problem, often unmasking deep-seated issues in your marriage anyway that really need to be worked out or left behind as the case may be.

harddrive, you might want to stop by your local BCA temple and ask to check out some books from their library. They may have a good sensei, but I don't know. I wouldn't actually recommend talking to the sensei, because it's a hit or miss kind of thing, and you may have to depend on sheer luck to find the right person to put things into proper perspective. I was raised Buddhist and learned about Christianity and Catholicism through people who I met and helped here at home. I go and occasionally help this one person fix his 911SC, and he explains his Catholic faith to me...a great tradeoff if you ask me. What I can tell you is this: Buddhists are taught to live in the moment, to make the best of each day AT THAT MOMENT, and not to sacrifice happiness for what may be or what could have been. I have lived my entire life with the kind of positive outlook that my Christian friends say they have found with God. I have always felt that God or someone in heaven has loved me, and that helps me be strong. One other thing that might help: the Code of Bushido. My grandfather used to teach us grandsons this all the time.

I forgot to add: This was recommended to me by one of my Christian friends:

http://www.amazon.com/Inspirational-Study-Bible-NKJV/dp/B000UVXHCM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214185338&sr=8-4

Max Lucado Inspirational Study Bible. I have also bought and given away copies to my other Christian friends, one of whom is struggling with a substance abuse problem. Yes, I do believe positive change is posible. Christians will say that they turn their life over to God. Whatever faith you follow, try to see yourself as your God sees you.

I have been studying quite seriously for the past 18 months. I have not entered the Buddhist community here. I will explore it.

I was raised by someone who was into 'New Age' religions. It didn't matter which one. A little Buddism here, a bit of reading 'rune stones' there....whatever BS they could spout try and draw attention from their violent behavior. It has made me very wary of religous organzations. I need to get past it.

and you still post here???

you'll meet some good people in your spiritual travels. You know you found the genuine article if they don't try to persuade you to change your mind but accept you and your views as they are. I got a lot out of watching Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth.

Harddrive, if someone did something in the past that was not ok, then you are justified in feeling angry about it. But it won't get anyone anywhere to carry anger around. At some point, when you have a SUPPORTIVE network (I can't stress this enough), get your feelings out in the open. Identify how this makes you feel "you did this to me and this is how it made me feel". Then and only after you have done this, and it will be painful, you must forgive. You can't forgive until you do the identification or it is only burying the pain. The key is to release the pain, and to forgive. Don't try to change that person. Accept him or her as he or she is, and let it go.

pain and anger can be good at times.. sometimes it's the only way I know I'm still alive

I think I'm a bit past what you talking about. I had to take ownership of these issue long ago. The only problem this person poses for me now is that they are still out there, operating in the same manner. I suppose I feel sad more than angry. A wasted life really (theirs, no mine). A brilliant person with personality disorders that made them into a near criminal.

No, I am trying to change just the day to day dynamics of how I treat others. My wife is aware of what I am trying to do and she is supportive, and trying to change herself. We can both be extremely agressive, and at times nasty people. We don't abide foolishness. We didn't get to where we are being nice.

But the birth of our child made us both step back. I used to shout at my daughter, then just feel horrible about it. To see how deeply it affected her....it was a mirror. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I don't want to be that person, and I don't want my daughter living growing up with that.

So I started to work on changing. And its working. But habituated behavior one has had their entire life is tough to change.

yin and yang. Can't have one without the other. Everything is relative.

I'm tellin' ya...get some Pema and start reading...

First off, PLEASE do not take this the wrong way, nor personally.

I consider myself to be, mostly, a Taoist. I'm not however, just as no one should be able to label themselves...but I digress.

I understand Buddhism as being a philosophy to deal with the inherent pain and suffering of Life, and Taoism as being a philosophy that if you are part of Life, there is no pain and suffering...there is an interesting parable concerning a Hindu, a Buddhist, and a Taoist, and their interaction over a vat of vinegar...

I found it interesting that what you said melds with my understanding completely, and I wonder about you impression of that. If you don't understand, I can explain...I hope (I'll be sober then, and it might not be so obvious, even to me :p )

Again...PURELY interested in the "let's talk about something interesting and esoteric" vein, NOT anything else ;)

HD, try the Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama. Great read.

For those that believe that one could not change, i disagree.

You could change if you want to, look around what is constant? You change every moment physically, you loose cells make new ones, use energy eat food. I wonder if there is a study somewhere that figures out how long your current set of matter that makes your physical stays the same. I reckon it is not as long as many would believe.

Your personality is not much different. It all starts with thought. Thought -> Action -> Habbit -> Character -> Destiny.

If you think you could not change then your destiny is already set. Is it?

children will mirror what they see. It may be hard to change old habits, but it will be even harder for your child to overcome the bad things that you teach her. There was another scene from a movie that I like "The Bruce Lee Story" In it, a young Bruce Lee was growing up in Hong Kong. His father says that a parent must confront his demons or he will pass them along to his children (meaning that the demon will live on in that child).

Paz, I doubt that I will become anything like a saint or buddha. I borrow pieces of too many religions and use what works for me. One thing I particularly disagree with is that you must completely agree with what someone is trying to teach you or you will be damned for eternity. There is good everywhere, and not everyone agrees on matters of faith, but that does not negate the good.

+1

i do exactly that, even wrote off my own mother in the process
and boy did that take a load off, and i've grown in many ways since

fact is , not all problems are fixable
not all situations can be compromised with
compromise should only ever be temporary or the compromising will eat you up inside...

There are enough folks in the world, so canning those who require permanent compromise only makes room for those who don't need it...

They say anything you do for 21 consecutive days is now a new habit.

+1

Wow did I write that?

I'm re-opening this topic because I am buying the Pema Chodron book to send to an ex-girlfriend who is struggling big time with personal inner demons. She's in a bad place mentally and emotionally, and I have been giving her situation a lot of thought and attention and effort lately. I guess she turned to me because I'm the only person in her life who she has really trusted and respected.

I don't know why I'm writing this. Maybe I'll come back later and say it was dumb, but I have concluded that she needs a cocktail of spiritual approaches to handle her problems and lack of faith in other people, and sense of self worth. I can't see getting back together with her because I am not going to get sucked down the whirlpool of negative emtions. All I know tells me to let negative emotions go, to have faith in the goodness of human nature, and to avoid negative or loser people like the plauge.

I sent her a book by Max Lucado, a Christian author and minister, titled, "Travelling Light", which has some very good advice about letting go of anxiety and problems.

Anyway, this is a bit OT from OT, but I couldn't think of a better place to post it.

Thanks for the recommendation, Nostatic!