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-   -   Well, there they go again! (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/416081-well-there-they-go-again.html)

red-beard 06-23-2008 02:53 AM

Well, there they go again!
 
Some on this board are convinced that it is Conservatives that are reducing the liberties in the US. This is disproven in much of the 2nd amendment work in the past 8 years.

However, when given a chance, people like Chris Dodd add rider's like this, making my blood go cold.

With as little as has been done by this congress, why do this?

Congress's Fingerprint Fine Print

By JOHN BERLAU
June 23, 2008; Page A17

Fingerprints have long been considered to be among the most personal of information. Proposals for creating fingerprint databases are usually controversial and often lead to a spirited public debate. Even when a fingerprint registry will likely help fight terrorism or crime, many still fear it will lead to a surveillance state.
Yet this week a measure creating a federal fingerprint registry totally unrelated to national security or violent crime may clear the Senate with little debate. The legislation would require thousands of individuals not suspected of any wrongdoing to send their prints to the feds.
What issue is so important that it warrants creating a fingerprint database without public debate? Believe it or not, the housing slowdown. The database and fingerprint mandates are contained in the housing bailout bill that will likely come to a vote on Tuesday.
Tucked into a broad, 537-page bill (not counting tax provisions yet to be added) mostly concerned with government backing of mortgage modifications is a requirement for a registration of "loan originators." The provision says that "an individual may not engage in the business of a loan originator without first . . . obtaining a unique identifier." To obtain this "identifier," an individual is required to "furnish" to the newly created Nationwide Mortgage Licensing System and Registry "information concerning the applicant's identity, including fingerprints," that will be sent to the FBI and other government agencies.
The bill's definition of "loan originator" could cover a broad swath of employees working for mortgage lenders and brokers and real estate firms, including clerical employees, part-time and seasonal workers. An "originator" is defined as anyone who "takes a residential loan application; and offers or negotiates terms of a residential mortgage loan for compensation or gain." Real estate agents are also covered if they receive any type of compensation from "originators."
The rationale for this new fingerprint registry is thin. Were a significant number of bad loans made by ex-convicts? And how would the targeting of lower-level employees – rather than executives like Countrywide Financial CEO Angelo Mozilo – stem the creation of problematic mortgages?
But one searches the Congressional Record in vain for any justification. As tech-policy columnist Declan McCullagh recently wrote in CNET.com, "What's a little odd is the lack of public discussion about this new fingerprint database." The fingerprinting requirements are not mentioned in bill summaries and press releases, or even in the table of contents of the Senate bill. Queries to the Senate Banking Committee and various senators haven't been answered.
What is clear is that many senators who fancy themselves champions of civil liberties on national security aren't as troubled in this case. The fingerprint provisions were originally contained in the Senate's S.A.F.E. Mortgage Licensing Act introduced in February. Among the 14 sponsors are two Republicans – Mel Martinez of Florida and Elizabeth Dole of North Carolina – and 12 Democrats. Among the Democratic co-sponsors are Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
There were also few objections when Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd (D., Conn.) and Ranking Member Richard Shelby (R., Ala.) folded this legislation into the bill that cleared the committee in May. That bill, with the fingerprint provisions, was voted out 19-2, without a single Democrat voting "nay." Perhaps most of the senators haven't read the fingerprint provisions. But if so, what kind of example is that for the lenders and borrowers they are supposedly trying to encourage to use due diligence?
Meanwhile, the free-market activist group FreedomWorks points to a provision of the Senate's housing tax package that would require payment settlement entities, such as eBay and Amazon, to report customer transactions over a certain threshold to the IRS. This would be done as an offset to pay for the housing tax breaks. The Center for Democracy and Technology, a liberal policy group, has testified that a similar proposal "raises serious privacy and data security concerns that are especially significant in the small business context."
As word about these provisions has spread, so has bipartisan outrage. When I wrote on the fingerprint mandate for the Competitive Enterprise Institute-affiliated blog site OpenMarket.org in late May, the post received almost 400 comments. Thom Hartmann, one of the premiere talk radio hosts of the left, has also blasted the database proposal.
But will this outrage be heard by members of Congress hell-bent on "doing something" – anything – on housing? The perverse lesson of these provisions may be that the more trivial the justification for legislation compromising privacy, the easier it is to get through.
Mr. Berlau is director of the Center for Entrepreneurship at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

Jim Richards 06-23-2008 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 4018258)
Some on this board are convinced that it is Conservatives that are reducing the liberties in the US.

Not conservatives...NEO-conservatives. They even bungled the meaning of NEO. Instead of meaning new, they've twisted it into meaning not.

Porsche-O-Phile 06-23-2008 05:25 AM

100% agreed. I think the biggest threats to our liberty are (1) the so-called neo-conservatives (who are really closer to fascists than anything else) and (2) liberals. In that order.

cel 06-23-2008 09:38 AM

Definition of conseratives
 
To me being a conservative means to follow our constitution as defined by its original authors.

nostatic 06-23-2008 09:42 AM

one of the stalwart "conservatives" here always chimes in with "if you're not guilty then why should you care?"

Jim Richards 06-23-2008 09:49 AM

You mean our old pal Rick? :D

Racerbvd 06-23-2008 02:47 PM

Don't forget they are trying to limit Free Speech toohttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/fork_off.gif

Quote:

"The Battle for Talk Radio," leading liberals in Congress, the Democratic presidential candidates, and even some Republicans speak openly of their plans to end conservative talk radio using federal regulations.
Their weapon: a revived Fairness Doctrine, which would once again require stations to air divergent points of view — a clever ruse that makes station owners leery of airing controversial talk-radio hosts fearing law suits and federal sanctions.

With a new Fairness Doctrine, you could see many top conservative radio hosts canned.

This Newsmax special report also features an exclusive interview with Fox News host Bill O'Reilly who tells Newsmax there is no question a plan is being hatched. "The far-left kooks will try, but they will fail," O'Reilly says.




Shaun @ Tru6 06-23-2008 03:54 PM

Glad to see the WSJ trail NPR by a month on reporting on this old news. Dodd was lambasted for this bit as I recall, with no good answer from him on why fingerprinting was necessary.

The Act as a whole is a good idea. This fingerprinting bit is bull*****.

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DanielDudley 06-23-2008 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 4018374)
100% agreed. I think the biggest threats to our liberty are (1) the so-called neo-conservatives (who are really closer to fascists than anything else) and (2) liberals. In that order.

If you mean the far left and the far right, I would agree with you.


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