Now wait just a minute Mule...I thought "I" was a CSLONMNOPQ.... :)?

Nopq?

You're quite wrong there, and I cannot see in any way shape or form how you could possibly even think that. What have I said or inferred, EVER, that would make you think that I do not know the facts nor laws? Please, it should be quite simple, since you stated it with such clarity and conviction...bring it. Then tell me why this is not premeditated murder, and tell me why you are ALL ignoring the fact that this jury will convene to determine if it is JUSTIFIED homicide, not if it is homicide. We all know it's homicide, the question is whether he was justified within the VERY exacting but VERY poorly delineated laws.


And you're even MORE wrong, but you don't have any excuses, you simply throw the "liberal" name around like it's candy. I'm very likely LESS liberal than YOU...FAR less.

Pazuzu, if you are less liberal than Mule then I, uh, well, uh. I can't think of anything to say because that would seem to be improbable if not impossible.

If I wasn't just a dumb leftie, you would have gotten the rest of them too :)

You wouldn't be alone...

I haven't seen anything from him that shows that he is anything but a loudmouth who spouts the neo-con rhetoric...yet is seems particularly concerned about the inner working of OTHER people's lives...which is, of course, a hallmark of the new liberal/socialist. Until he shows me that he's for small government, local rights, personal freedoms, tax removal, etc, I will not believe that he is anything except a highly excitable kid with a fixation on what Fox news spews at him.

+1

Not to cause any more foaming at the mouth in this thread, but here are some facts according to the article:

Mr. Horn was not defending himself or his property. It was a neighbor's house.

Mr. Horn did not know who these people were. They could have been pros or otherwise (e.g. kids playing a prank or even committing a crime).

Mr. Horn told authorities he was going to shoot them and was advised against doing it.

Mr. Horn shot them in the back (according to the coroner's examination).

There are no opinions in the above, just information based on the articles cited.

These are my MHOs:
If Mr. Horn is exonerated, the default lawful punishment for suspected home burglary in TX is the death penalty.

All facts gathered about the victims were after the fact, thus immaterial as it related to the actual shooting. Justifying Mr. Horn's actions after the fact is something else.

Sherwood

The verdict is in. There will be no charges filed against Joe Horn. Score one for the good guys.

What are the odds he gets bankrupted by the civil suit?

A smart judge would toss that case too.

Quanell X (local blacktivist) has a protest planned outside of Horn's home. Hot times in H-town.

if they file in Texas we will,
any Lawyer taking the case ..should be shot as well.
Rika

Interesting. I'd like to read a bit more about the judges decision, other than the snippet on the Chron website. I want to know what they are going to do about the poorly worded law, and why/how the judge decided that this was a justified shooting. It will come up again, and that law will be tested again...I want to see the legal underpinnings behind the decisions know, and how they will play out next time.

This is a fact.

Pazuzu, I say you don't know the law or the facts of this case based on your utter failure to exhibit any evidence whatsoever to the contrary.

Obviously you are not from Texas, where are you from, Jersey?

You've got issues. I'm from a state that makes Texas look like a bawling little child with it's highly restrictive laws and coddling of welfare people. however, where I'm from has ZERO to do with the fact that (a) you have issues and (b) I know plenty about the law AND this case. It ain't hard for an educated, logical person such as myself to study these things with a fair level of mastery.

Now, did you have anything useful to contribute, or are you just going to sit there and let your virtual mouth masturbate some more?

If I was Horn I'd come out the door with my gun and claim they are trying to break into his home. :D

Quanell X, ... is this somewhere on the back of Tampon's or what.

Rika

I must be totally clueless.

I guess more accurately I should say the Judge in this case and I obviously know less about the law and the case than the pillar of logic, Pazuzu.
:rolleyes:

I guess you must have lived in Yemen before moving to Tejas

Mr. X is a stand up guy, really. He only cares about his community and the people around him.


:rolleyes:


I hoped after the tears in his eyes during the press conference about those kids that maybe, just maybe, something had clicked in his dark rotten heart, like the Grinch, and he would stop this showboating and rabble rousing.

I guess not.

Try that again kid, but this time, speak English. you make no sense. When in the hell did I say anything the judge knowing or not knowing anything about the law or the case...and for that freaking matter, when in the hell did I say anything about YOU knowing such thing? YOU are the child that is attacking me here, keep up, it's not that hard.

Now, WTF are you talking about???

Why is it that liberals always defend criminal, , they were caught in the act of committing a crime, they were illegally here, I say good riddance to the trash!!! We should be shooting them at the boarder & cut all monies going to mexico!!!

Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".

Truer words were never written.

Who's a liberal, and who's defending criminals? Did you guys get a group buy on blinders?

Oh, and "shoot them all at the border" thing...yeah, that ain't gonna fly...spend some time on the border and then say that with a straight face. It's a really really big place, with lots of things that want to eat you, and the illegals don't really show very well, even with an IR scope. You'd last about 12 hours out there before you pulled up camp, went back to the Motel 6 and started drinking Coronas while watching Fox News.

Why are you defending people who were committing a crime, are you related to them or something?? Motel 6, I think not. Yes, a big area, and if the illegals & those helping them start getting shot instead of a ride,, they might think before the try & sneak back in. You are the only one wearing blinders. So you would ignore it if your 85 year old neighbor was getting her home broken in??? Yea, call the cops so they can get there after the illegals you ignored raped & robbed her:(

I'LL YELL SO YOU CAN FREAKING HEAR ME!!! WHEN DID I DEFEND THESE TWO PEOPLE??? WTF is wrong with you? Please please PLEASE show me where I defending them in any way shape or form? They were illegally here, multiply convicted criminals that were robbing a house in daylight, there is nothing about them that is defensible, so I don't know how in the heck you could possibly, in any way shape or form, state that I was defending them.

Jeezus this board is full of daft loonies!

But you can't stop visiting either can ya :)? You're going to shoot you blood pressure right through the roof if you don't "let it roll right off"...

Na, I spent years tossing crap back and forth on message boards, it's no big deal ;)

I'm right up there with the best of 'em at e-thugging :D

rabble rousing??????????????????

Zero. Castle Law passed last session.

Hey Mike, Texes is a "bawling child" ? Compared to what and for what? The rest of your sentance makes Texas sound like an Adult society compared to where you are from. We take responsibility for ourselves and help and look out for neighbors and strangers alike.

If'n ya don't like it, Hwy 6 runs both ways! (That is an Aggie expression).

There was a similar case, here in CA a few years ago as I recall.

Home owner was exasperated with neighborhood kids stealing his Halloween pumpkins. One night, some kids took (stole) a pumpkin. He confronted them in their car as they were driving away, shot at them and killed a young kid.

The circumstances are similar to the TX case with Mr. Horn except he wasn't talking to a 911 operator.

Let's see. How can we justify this one?

BTW, in some middle eastern countries, they have an eye-for-an-eye system of justice. That seems more lenient than what happened here, and those countries aren't known for leniency. But that's according to their criminal justice system. Mr. Horn's or Mr. Pumpkin's situation wasn't anywhere related to a court of law.

Sherwood

Arizona. Try to keep up with them, you won't. They have better gun laws, better self-defense laws, and the people there actually (except for the LA transplants in Phoenix) understand personal rights and the suppression of government.

Only an Aggie would think that some Aggie expression gives them ANY credence in the real world. Everyone else just laughs at them...

Sheila Jackson Lee is stepping up to the plate, she will be playing the race card faster than you can say Quanell X

Just saw her talking about the "victims" having their civil rights violated, making a federal case out of the "problems" with the Harris County legal system.

Sherwood, the facts are not similar, and the pertinent laws are totally different. If you shoot a serial killer with a great big knife trying to break into your home in California, you are guilty of manslaughter minimum if you kill them outside your home. In Cali, they have to be in your house, and you must be in fear for your life.

If you listen to the tape, it sounds like he went into his front yard with a shotgun, they approached, he shot one and the other ran off...how exactly is he not defending himself when two guys he just watched commit a felony come at him on his property?

Your interpretation sounds reasonable. Not sure that's exactly what happened.

"If you shoot a serial killer with a great big knife trying to break into your home in California, you are guilty of manslaughter minimum if you kill them outside your home. In Cali, they have to be in your house, and you must be in fear for your life."

Let's say you're correct in the sequence of events.

Was Mr. Horn in fear for his life, trying to prevent a crime or delivering vigilante justice? If the second man were running away, what's the justification for shooting him in the back? Weren't both shot in the back? To me, running in the opposite direction doesn't seem to be a threatening position, especially with a home owner possessing a shotgun, but I wasn't there. As I said before, the status of the two victims is irrelevant. Prior to the shooting. Mr. Horn purportedly didn't know them, thus their immigration status and crime record shouldn't be a justification for shooting them. If instead, the victims were neighborhood prankster kids, would the judge/jury render the same verdict? If not, imho that would be an application of a double standard.

I'm sure you'll agree that a minor detail or reporting of can change the complexion of any scenario.

Sherwood

To keep the bastards from coming back or robbing anyonme elsehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/ar15.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/ar15.gif

There is a very easy way not to get killed, don't rob someone, runniung away or not, if you hadn't tried to break in no one would haver shot you!!! No loss when a crook dies!!!