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-   -   Supremes will decide DC v. Heller today? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/416647-supremes-will-decide-dc-v-heller-today.html)

Joeaksa 06-26-2008 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 4025287)
I'm still skeptical that this is gonna make it any less than nearly impossible to own, forget carry, a handgun in the gun ban cities. Where's the compliance/enforcement mechanisim? What happens WHEN, not if, DC, Chicago, NYC, etc. drag their feet on allowing handguns?

Thats easy. Now the gent in DC who applied for a permit re-applies. When its turned down then a lawsuit is filed against the city, sheriff and so on. They will lose after this ruling and then the door is open.

Porsche-O-Phile 06-26-2008 07:20 AM

Good news!

Maybe there's some hope for liberty in this country yet!

Haven't read the opinion yet (and I know this case was about handguns in particular), but is there any implication for things like the stupid "assault weapons" ban here in CA? I'd love to go get an AR-15 (a real one, not the dumbed-down, crippled, 10-round limited one).

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 4025292)
Rick, we both know that a 100% free for all, walk into 7-11 and buy a gun is not in the best interest of the country.

Infringe isn't the soft and cuddly word you think it is either. This law clearly violated DC Citizens' right to bear arms. A waiting period and background check does not.

I'll say it again. In my book, you can own any gun you want, any, but, and in my book, a 7 day waiting period and background check are reasonable precautions to protect the public at large.

You should know then that there is no federal seven day waiting period. How is this relevant? The Brady Law (or waiting period) no longer applied once a state got the NICS system up and running. Since VA was the first state to do so and I lived there at the time, I was never subject to the waiting period. In fact, I was a PA resident when I bought my first handgun about a month before the Brady Law was signed. And I was a VA resident when I bought my second handgun.

In AZ you are exempt from even the NICS check if you have a concealed carry permit (they do a NICS check as part of the permitting process though), which I do. Sooooo, despite the fact that I already have handguns for every day of the week and color of the sky, I am, thankfully, not even subject to a background check anymore, let alone a waiting period. It takes me as long to buy a gun now (if buying from an FFL) as it does for me to fill out the paperwork. That's it. Cash and carry. Under state and federal law, I can also buy guns via private, face-face transactions in a Home Depot or K-Mart parking lot (both of which I've done) without any paperwork at all. Sooooo....tell me how writing more laws to make it more difficult for me to buy guns is gonna make anyone safer.

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 4025323)
Good news!

Maybe there's some hope for liberty in this country yet!

Haven't read the opinion yet (and I know this case was about handguns in particular), but is there any implication for things like the stupid "assault weapons" ban here in CA? I'd love to go get an AR-15 (a real one, not the dumbed-down, crippled, 10-round limited one).

Pretty sure the DC ban on semi-autos was left intact. Best you can hope for is for someone in CA with a lot of time and money to challenge the state ban. After all, the SCOTUS like overruling the 9th Circuit just for kicks, so there's always hope.

varmint 06-26-2008 07:37 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214494647.gif

Overpaid Slacker 06-26-2008 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 4025357)
Pretty sure the DC ban on semi-autos was left intact. Best you can hope for is for someone in CA with a lot of time and money to challenge the state ban. After all, the SCOTUS like overruling the 9th Circuit just for kicks, so there's always hope.

One of my favorite stories/legends from law school:

Antonin Scalia begins a SCOTUS majority opinion with: "This case comes to us on writ of certiorari from the 9th Circuit. Other reasons for reversal include...."

Bwah-ha-ha-ha- HA!

JP

Joeaksa 06-26-2008 07:52 AM

From Yahoo:

The NRA will file lawsuits in San Francisco, Chicago and several of its suburbs challenging handgun restrictions there based on Thursday's outcome.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a leading gun control advocate in Congress, criticized the ruling. "I believe the people of this great country will be less safe because of it," she said.

onewhippedpuppy 06-26-2008 07:55 AM

Remove a few of our gun control advocate Congressmen/women from their gated communities, and insert them into the real world. I'm sure they would quickly understand why gun ownership is a good thing. Or perhaps not, since they are under the naive impression that gun control laws actually impede criminals from acquiring guns.

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 4025398)
Remove a few of our gun control advocate Congressmen/women from their gated communities, and insert them into the real world. I'm sure they would quickly understand why gun ownership is a good thing. Or perhaps not, since they are under the naive impression that gun control laws actually impede criminals from acquiring guns.

Dianne Feinstein has a CCW anyway. Hey, if you're a super rich politician, you should be able to have special rights that your minions don't get, right?

Shaun @ Tru6 06-26-2008 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 4025354)
You should know then that there is no federal seven day waiting period. How is this relevant? The Brady Law (or waiting period) no longer applied once a state got the NICS system up and running. Since VA was the first state to do so and I lived there at the time, I was never subject to the waiting period. In fact, I was a PA resident when I bought my first handgun about a month before the Brady Law was signed. And I was a VA resident when I bought my second handgun.

In AZ you are exempt from even the NICS check if you have a concealed carry permit (they do a NICS check as part of the permitting process though), which I do. Sooooo, despite the fact that I already have handguns for every day of the week and color of the sky, I am, thankfully, not even subject to a background check anymore, let alone a waiting period. It takes me as long to buy a gun now (if buying from an FFL) as it does for me to fill out the paperwork. That's it. Cash and carry. Under state and federal law, I can also buy guns via private, face-face transactions in a Home Depot or K-Mart parking lot (both of which I've done) without any paperwork at all. Sooooo....tell me how writing more laws to make it more difficult for me to buy guns is gonna make anyone safer.

Rick, why do you always respond against what you hoped I said vs. what I said?

My gun world has 3 laws:
1. You can own any gun you want.
2. There is a 7-day waiting period
3. There is a background check

That's all. nothing more.

Porsche-O-Phile 06-26-2008 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 4025443)
Rick, why do you always respond against what you hoped I said vs. what I said?

My gun world has 3 laws:
1. You can own any gun you want.
2. There is a 7-day waiting period
3. There is a background check

That's all. nothing more.

Sign me up for a couple o' them Phalanx systems and maybe an atom bomb. :)

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 4025443)
Rick, why do you always respond against what you hoped I said vs. what I said?

My gun world has 3 laws:
1. You can own any gun you want.
2. There is a 7-day waiting period
3. There is a background check

That's all. nothing more.

Saying that waiting periods and backgrounds checks are reasonable AND don't infringe on 2nd Amendment rights are two different things. Sometimes, "reasonable" and "don't infringe" are mutually exclusive.

Which other individual, Constitutional rights do you find reasonable to restrict with a waiting period? Free speech? Right to petition government for redress of grievances? Right against self-incrimination? Double jeopardy? Please don't tell me guns are a special case, since waiting periods have never prevented a single crime and background checks have only impeded the truly dumbest of criminals. Perhaps I should have to wait seven days after I'm arrested before I can speak with a lawyer? Why not? I mean, the police only want to question me to keep society safe, just like waiting periods for guns keep us safer, especially in times of crisis like the LA riots or Katrina.

Shaun @ Tru6 06-26-2008 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 4025471)
Sign me up for a couple o' them Phalanx systems and maybe an atom bomb. :)

Go for the family pack and 20% off a stinger missile.:D

Shaun @ Tru6 06-26-2008 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 4025473)
Saying that waiting periods and backgrounds checks are reasonable AND don't infringe on 2nd Amendment rights are two different things. Sometimes, "reasonable" and "don't infringe" are mutually exclusive.

Which other individual, Constitutional rights do you find reasonable to restrict with a waiting period? Free speech? Right to petition government for redress of grievances? Right against self-incrimination? Double jeopardy? Please don't tell me guns are a special case, since waiting periods have never prevented a single crime and background checks have only impeded the truly dumbest of criminals. Perhaps I should have to wait seven days after I'm arrested before I can speak with a lawyer? Why not? I mean, the police only want to question me to keep society safe, just like waiting periods for guns keep us safer, especially in times of crisis like the LA riots or Katrina.

Oh man, are you over the edge! Let me know when it's legal to yell "fire" in a movie theater.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: What is Ron always saying? The Constitution isn't a death sentence. The Constitution doesn't endorse Extremism, it controls it Rick, and you are a perfect example. Your ranting here on OT about how much you'd love to torture people is not reason enough for a 7 day waiting period, but man it sure comes close.

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 08:59 AM

Shaun, if I already own multiple handguns, what good is a seven day wait? Can't I use my other handguns to commit crimes while waiting to pick up the next one? And if you own no guns at all, but want to buy your first one during a time of emergency, how is that seven day wait helping anyone? With looters coming closer to your house, how would you feel if you knew you had no way of even purchasing the means to defend yourself?

Shaun @ Tru6 06-26-2008 09:06 AM

Simple case: fellow already owns a little 410 for quail.

he has the urge to go postal, but the 410 just ain't gonna do it for'im.

7 day waiting period.

I have no problem with this fellow getting whatever he wants after 7 days and a check, he has the right, in my book, to get whatever he wants. 7 days and a check could make the difference in someone else's life.

Emergency? It is every Citizen's responsibility to be prepared for emergencies. get a gun before you need one, learn how to use it safely before you have to. nuff said.

rcecale 06-26-2008 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa (Post 4025394)
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a leading gun control advocate in Congress, criticized the ruling. "I believe the people of this great country will be less safe because of it," she said.

Feinstein isn't the only dumba$$ speaking out against this ruling. Check out what Nazi Pelosi said...

Pelosi Says DC Should Continue Gun Regulation

I guess the SCOTUS and The Constitution mean nothing to this moron! :mad:

Randy

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 4025546)
Simple case: fellow already owns a little 410 for quail.

he has the urge to go postal, but the 410 just ain't gonna do it for'im.

7 day waiting period.

I have no problem with this fellow getting whatever he wants after 7 days and a check, he has the right, in my book, to get whatever he wants. 7 days and a check could make the difference in someone else's life.

Emergency? It is every Citizen's responsibility to be prepared for emergencies. get a gun before you need one, learn how to use it safely before you have to. nuff said.

You can't be serious. You think someone can't go postal with a .410 or that a waiting period would permanently straighten them out? And if you suggest someone needs to plan for emergencies well enough in advance to make the seven day wait a moot point, what makes you think the guy who only has a .410 is also such a poor planner as to not get a more suited gun for his mass shooting well enough in advance? Just unreal.

Rick Lee 06-26-2008 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcecale (Post 4025603)
I guess the SCOTUS and The Constitution mean nothing to this moron! :mad:

And this surprises you? If the Constitution meant anything to politicians, we'd have never had any kind of gun bans in this country.

rcecale 06-26-2008 09:45 AM

Not in the least, Rick!

Randy


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