How to tactfully talk sense into a used car seller?

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok, strange situation here guys. As you know I am in the market for a Karmann Ghia convertible. I have been searching Craigslist and the Samba and have two leads here in Texas.

One of the leads was listed in San Antonio. It is a 1969 convertible which was rescued from a junkyard decades ago by the seller's father. He apparently restored it at some point. It sounds like the car was given to his daughter (the current owner) and the father died sometime after. The car has fallen into disrepair, the convertible top needs complete replacement, engine hasn't run in several years, needs all new interior, etc. The daughter has decided to sell the car. She fully admits to knowing "nothing" about these cars. The craigslist ad showed the asking price as $40000. I, assuming it was a typo, asked her how firm she was at $4000. She e-mailed me back and told me that she had been told the car was "easily" worth $35-40k restored but she didn't want to put the money into the car to get it there. Oh, the car has no title either, btw. She says her father put together the documentation but never filed for title.

So I e-mail her back and explain that a 69 Ghia convertible is worth probably $18-20k in pristine condition, fully restored. I link an e-bay auction for a pristine 66 convertible which has full documentation and is going for $23k. I explain that the car needs significant work, does not have a title, and likely will not run. Given all that, I explain that I would be willing to consider an offer in the $5k range. The car is a 5 hour drive from me and I'm willing to go get it, but I don't want to waste my time.

Any ideas from the veteran classic car buyers on how to best approach this? The car is a very good start on a resto, but the price is just completely out of left field.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Any ideas from the veteran classic car buyers on how to best approach this? The car is a very good start on a resto, but the price is just completely out of left field.

I would either chuckle and walk away or offer her what you realistically would be willing to pay for the car and tell her to call you when she's ready to sell. You're so far apart right now that I would imagine that any sort of "logical" discussion on an actual selling price is not going to happen.

[Jim Richards]

Rick, here's another example to support the price you're thinking. This one is claimed to be in superb condition. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/car/716901442.html

[legion]

She is in the "delusional" car seller phase right now. Her car is worth more than any other because some guy told her so. Besides, it's *almost* pristine, so coming down from her $40k price will only be done in increments of what it costs to fix.

Sadly, you are the bad guy because you just happened to be the first person to break the news to her. You won't get the car. She will be angry with you for destroying her dream. It will be the the third guy that comes along saying exactly what you have said that will get the car.

[cashflyer]

ND- Walk.

There is no way that you will ever get her to the correct price because she has a personal attachment to it. It was her grandfathers project, then her fathers, and then it was her father's gift to her. It is her tie to those men in her family that she misses.

[TerryBPP]

I had a similar situation occur with a 76' 914-4 a sub we use had rotting in the back of his office. This car had been sitting outside for 10 yrs, nothing worked, rust in the usual places. But I was looking for a project so i offered him $500. He laughed and said it was easily worth $5k. No matter how many links of 914's for sale I sent him he still didn't budge.

Car is still sitting there, rotting.

The guy had a 89' 911 vert too so his ignorance surprised me.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "I am in the market for a Karmann Ghia convertible. "
____________________

Drove by a neighbors home recently, in his (open) garage was a white, KG convert. and I could see a For Sale sign in the front window.

I'll see if he still has it (and get the 'vitals').

[Dave L]

Nicely! tell her good luck with the sale then call her back in 3 months. If she still has the car she will more likely be willing to take a low price. Im with Legion on this one, the buyer is delusional and will be forced to take a realistic price but it will take time.

[cgarr]

The problem for her is that its a real limited market, I think? She needs to find the right buyer, I am having the same problems selling my VW, yea I think its worth 7500 and it may be to just one other person but I need to find that person. I would give her your contact info and keep looking.

[livi]

Understanding and empathetic toward her emotional connection with the car, then provide as many examples of real world selling prices you can find, give her your reasonable offer and ask her to give you a call if she changes her mind.

[Jim Richards]

Since it is a five hour drive just to see and assess the condition of this car, I think you should just leave your contact info as the others have suggested, and check back with her from time to time. Meanwhile, I hope you can find a great Ghia at a reasonable price.

Have you considered casting a wider net (beyond Tejas) and leaning on the Pelican clan to help you find the right car?

[VaSteve]

Just tell her to call you when she's ready to sell at a price closer to your offering number. Or, keep looking. She'll either bend or you'll end up with a different car. The market dictates the price I'm afraid. It took me 3 months to unload a semi track prepped 944...but I found an enthusiast to take care of it. I didn't get the "price" I wanted, but in the end I'm happy it's sold.

[javadog]

That car doesn't sound like a very good candidate to me.

It's always cheaper to buy a finished car than a project. If you are looking for something to tinker with on weekends, even a finished car will have needs. I think a full restoration is more than you want to chew on right now.

JR

[john70t]

You tried the reasonable-explaination tactic, which doesn't seem to work on some individuals.
Mabye link her to parts-websites to show how much replacements cost, and the hourly rates of shops to give her a clue as to what it really takes in man-hours to complete things, thank her politely and give her your contact info, and then keep looking.

It may take her a while to figure it out, but she may decide she wants the car to go to the "kind enthusiast" later on. The car has family sentimentality attached to it, so she may be thinking she's doing her father a favor. It's probably emotion, not business, at work here.

[sammyg2]

$40k for a ghia? LOL, no matter what condition that is still ridiculous AFAIK.
Even $23k is a joke. I can see paying around $10k for a perfect one but other than that I wouldn't even consider it. Can someone explain to me how a restored Ghia is supposedly worth more than an original 914/6?

[legion]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Just tell her to call you when she's ready to sell at a price closer to your offering number. Or, keep looking. She'll either bend or you'll end up with a different car. The market dictates the price I'm afraid. It took me 3 months to unload a semi track prepped 944...but I found an enthusiast to take care of it. I didn't get the "price" I wanted, but in the end I'm happy it's sold.

I'm in the same boat. I have a 951 for sale, but it needs the right buyer to appreciate it. I've already pestered the most likely candidates here on Pelican, so now I wait.

I'm hesitant to put it in the local paper or on autotrader because I want to avoid constant phone calls from college kids who just want to drive a Porsche (and have no intention of buying)--it happened to a guy I know locally who was selling his 968.

[Nathans_Dad]

Yeah, I am looking at a running and driving 1970 Ghia convertible here locally tonight, he is asking $4800. The car has a bit of rust here and there but nothing too horrible. I'm going to call the woman with the 69 convertible now and see how she took my e-mail. I suspect I will be doing what many of you suggest, giving her my contact info and checking back as I look. Who knows, maybe this 70 car is a good one...I'll know tonight.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

$40k for a ghia? LOL, no matter what condition that is still ridiculous AFAIK.
Even $23k is a joke. I can see paying around $10k for a perfect one but other than that I wouldn't even consider it. Can someone explain to me how a restored Ghia is supposedly worth more than an original 914/6?

I think you're out of touch with VW prices. I don't think you could get a nice 914-6 for $23k. Pristine lowlight (55-59) convertibles are fetching upwards of $50k nowadays. Recently an decent '55 with a bad repaint went for a little under $20k. I've been offered $30k for my '56. In the bus world, 'so-so' pre-55 deluxes are closing in on $100k - nice onces are into 6-figures now.

[Zeke]

I'd make the drive if you are really interested. I wouldn't even bring up the price. That way she knows you, knows you are serious and not trying to bottom fish. Later, she may call, she maybe won't. But, she'll likely never call you as things stand because of how you look to her at this point. It's your move and then hers.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Yeah, I am looking at a running and driving 1970 Ghia convertible here locally tonight, he is asking $4800. The car has a bit of rust here and there but nothing too horrible. I'm going to call the woman with the 69 convertible now and see how she took my e-mail. I suspect I will be doing what many of you suggest, giving her my contact info and checking back as I look. Who knows, maybe this 70 car is a good one...I'll know tonight.

Unfortunately, the '70 has the first iteration of the 'late' big tail/parking lights, although they still have the overrider type bumpers. Was an intermediate light as they got even bigger later and got impact bumpers.

'69 is the last year for the 'old' tail/parking lights.

So there is at least a perceived value drop from '69 to '70, in my mind anyway.

I restored a '69 ghia vert several years ago (except that I did remove the round reflectors off the fenders).

However, 40k is just nuts.