Your Genes and Insurance

[kstar]

Personal DNA and privacy is a very broad topic, but this poll will focus on one aspect of the issue. DNA testing for "markers" for certain diseases is now available at a reasonable cost and will only get cheaper.

What may emerge form this is that people with fewer such markers may want this info known to insurance companies for the purpose of cheaper health and life insurance while those with more genetic dispositions to disease may want this info kept private, away from insurers.

The problem is that those who wish to keep DNA info private would probably have to pay a higher rate anyway than those with "better genes" (bad term, but it'll do) who made info available to insurance cos.

How will/should this conflict be resolved?

Discuss.

[legion]

One of my all-time favorite movies is Gattaca...

I believe there are finite limits to what DNA can predict. I believe DNA is more like a dozen roads stretching into the future all converging at the present: it shows possible futures, not The Future.

You may be inclined to gain muscle mass quickly, but if you never hit the gym...

I may be inclined to heart attacks, but if I never eat saturated fats and do triathlons...

We are a product of our genes, our environment, and our choices.

[Joeaksa]

This can be a very slippery slope. Turning data like this over to the insurance companies will not result in anything good but more profit to the companies and poorer service to the clients.

[Nathans_Dad]

Hey, it's evolution man. Those with inferior genes should be weeded out.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Hey, it's evolution man. Those with inferior genes should be weeded out.

And right now, because of the socialistic tendencies of some in government, those are the people that have the most kids and the least responsibility for them...

[kstar]

Originally Posted by legion

One of my all-time favorite movies is Gattaca...

I believe there are finite limits to what DNA can predict. I believe DNA is more like a dozen roads stretching into the future all converging at the present: it shows possible futures, not The Future.

You may be inclined to gain muscle mass quickly, but if you never hit the gym...

I may be inclined to heart attacks, but if I never eat saturated fats and do triathlons...

We are a product of our genes, our environment, and our choices.

Gattaca is one of my favorite movies as well! It certainly shows how DNA technology can lead "us" down the wrong road.

I generally agree with your post, but questions remain about what most contributes to the human composition; nature, nurture or choices.

I will probably get one of the scans just to know how I might make health choices now to avoid potential problems down the road . . . if it isn't too late.

I think I would want to keep this data private, at this point.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by legion

And right now, because of the socialistic tendencies of some in government, those are the people that have the most kids and the least responsibility for them...

yup, stupid people breeding like rabbits, smart people having one or no children.

Nurture and life choices have far more to do with health for most people

Privacy already is the trump card with AIDS. Doctor MUST disclose status, patient may disclose, despite the FACT that transmission of the disease from Doc to Pt is unlikely/impossible, but the converse is not true

[Nathans_Dad]

Why would you want to keep your genetic data private? Are we not hindering our own evolution as a species by allowing those with unfavorable genes to breed? Is it not best for the entire lot of human animals to select those who best will be able to compete in the future?

If humans are no different than animals, why would we treat ourselves differently than we treat animals? Cows are bred for maximum beef production and disease resistance, dogs are bred for looks and utility. Why not examine the genes of the human animals on this planet and select out those we deem disadvantageous to our collective survival?

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Why would you want to keep your genetic data private? Are we not hindering our own evolution as a species by allowing those with unfavorable genes to breed? Is it not best for the entire lot of human animals to select those who best will be able to compete in the future?

Natural vs. Artificial selection. Humans already "select" for positive traits - been doing this since it all began.

If humans are no different than animals, why would we treat ourselves differently than we treat animals? Cows are bred for maximum beef production and disease resistance, dogs are bred for looks and utility. Why not examine the genes of the human animals on this planet and select out those we deem disadvantageous to our collective survival?

Humans already do this - it's called "sex". Did you and your wife select each other for certain traits or just pick a mate a random?

[MRM]

I don't understand the issue. Can someone summarize it for me? What exactly do people think insurers or the government will be able to do with our genetic data? I don't trust insurance underwriters to write policies only for people who really exist. Lots of dead people have lots of insurance . . . just before the fire. Why do they think they can do anything with genetic data?

[kstar]

Originally Posted by MRM

I don't understand the issue. Can someone summarize it for me? What exactly do people think insurers or the government will be able to do with our genetic data? I don't trust insurance underwriters to write policies only for people who really exist. Lots of dead people have lots of insurance . . . just before the fire. Why do they think they can do anything with genetic data?

Let's assume person X had genetic markers that showed they had a strong disposition to heart disease. If this was known to an insurer it might cause the insurer, for whatever reasons, to charge higher premiums for person X.

Let's assume person Y had no significant negative genetic markers for disease and under this scenario, could get insurance at much lower cost.

How is privacy handled regarding this genetic information? How can insurance rates be determined if person Y wants his genetic information known to an insurer and person X does not?

[trekkor]

Do you believe man has a firm enough grasp on genetics to make life decisions for the entire population?

I don't.



KT

[MRM]

I haven't followed the debate about this so I really have no idea if this is even possible, or if this is heading off problems in the futre. I must admit it just seems far fetched to me. How do doctors know what genes have a predisposition to anything? Are there really genetic tests like that available now? How can insurers measure that risk? I would think it would cost cost more to collect the data, create actuarial tables, measure the risk and charge accordingly than the insurers could ever save in premiums. Doctors already take family histories that show well established risk factors. Do insurers take that into consideration? I've never had a problem because our family has always had continuous health care coverage with more or less the same company since we were married. I know we're lucky. just don't know what health insurers look at for new applicants. Liability insurance I know, but not health insurance.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

This can be a very slippery slope. Turning data like this over to the insurance companies will not result in anything good but more profit to the companies and poorer service to the clients.

Agree with Joe.

House odds and all.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Why would you want to keep your genetic data private? Are we not hindering our own evolution as a species by allowing those with unfavorable genes to breed? Is it not best for the entire lot of human animals to select those who best will be able to compete in the future?

If humans are no different than animals, why would we treat ourselves differently than we treat animals? Cows are bred for maximum beef production and disease resistance, dogs are bred for looks and utility. Why not examine the genes of the human animals on this planet and select out those we deem disadvantageous to our collective survival?

So who said this?

“OUR STARTING POINT IS NOT THE INDIVIDUAL, AND WE DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THE VIEW THAT ONE SHOULD FEED THE HUNGRY, GIVE DRINK TO THE THIRSTY, OR CLOTHE THE NAKED . . . . OUR OBJECTIVES ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT: WE MUST HAVE A HEALTHY PEOPLE IN ORDER TO PREVAIL IN THE WORLD.”

[kstar]

Just curious about the meaning of Goebbels quote in the context of this thread?

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Just curious about the meaning of Goebbels quote in the context of this thread?

The Nazis were very much into "genetics"...they'd have had a field day if DNA testing had been around then.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

The Nazis were very much into "genetics"...they'd have had a field day if DNA testing had been around then.

The application of genetics knowledge is just a tool. Like any other tool, both helpful and destructive purposes are possible.

If I had the opportunity to know that I had a disposition to some health related malady, I would want to know so that I might take action now to possibly avert it or diminish its effects.

The body of knowledge regarding these techniques, their efficacy and their more "accessible" costs appear to be pointing to a future where genetics knowledge will be extremely powerful and widely available . . . and potentially very dangerous.

Hence this thread.

Personally and IMHO, it appears that the Hitler connection is a straw man argument.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Just curious about the meaning of Goebbels quote in the context of this thread?

It was in response to Ricks post.

It was meant to illustrate the main flaw with genetic selection, the decision to eliminate/enhance traits is only as good as the people deciding what should be eliminated or enhanced.

[kstar]

I posted this on another thread and is has some import here as well, IMO.

The ADL speaks on "Expelled":

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5277_52.htm