Why no posts about Betancourt's escape?

[imcarthur]

I am really surprised by the complete silence in PPOT about Ingrid Betancourt's 'escape' from the Farc rebels. It's good news & a cool story. And there is even American content.

"Ms Betancourt, a former Colombian presidential candidate, was freed along with 14 other hostages after their captors were apparently tricked into handing them over to army personnel disguised as independent agency staff." BBC

Doesn't anybody have anything to say? Judging by Livi's thread about posting, many guys seem to get there news here (wtf?) so I am surprised no one bothered to post it for the world news impaired amongst us.

Ian

[Joeaksa]

Ian,

Totally agree and it was a fantastic save. Glad that they are out of there and hope that they kill the whole lot of the people who kidnapped and held these people for so long.

Joe

[Don Plumley]

Agreed. I completely forgot about the Americans in captivity for FIVE years. Nice they can be on US soil to celebrate their Independence Day.

[BeyGon]

I don't think it was concidence that J. McCain was there at the same time, and Nancy & Harry are screwing with Columbia.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

I don't think it was concidence that J. McCain was there at the same time, and Nancy & Harry are screwing with Columbia.

Ya think!

Remember when Carter was President and the Iranians did nothing about the hostages? They were released within minutes of Reagan being given the oath of the office for a very simple reason. They knew that he was not afraid to use ANY means necessary to return our people home.

Bet that the Columbians know this as well regarding McCain. Hussain would be talking with the rebels for another 10-15 years...

[nota]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Ya think!

Remember when Carter was President and the Iranians did nothing about the hostages? They were released within minutes of Reagan being given the oath of the office for a very simple reason. They knew that he was not afraid to use ANY means necessary to return our people home.

Bet that the Columbians know this as well regarding McCain. Hussain would be talking with the rebels for another 10-15 years...

SORRY BUT THATS JUST NOT TRUE
Carter tryed but the military screwed up [chopper crash]
ronnie raygun's people [o north] BRIBED that deal trading arms to iran
to keep the hostages intill the oath [perlonging the hostages stay]
that what led to the IRAN CONTRA mess that ronnie forgot [LIED ABOUT]
I guess you can inc bribes as ''any means'' but that was still trading with the enemy
and hardly honorable esp when the bribes are arms
and against both the law and policy

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

I am really surprised by the complete silence in PPOT about Ingrid Betancourt's 'escape' from the Farc rebels. It's good news & a cool story. And there is even American content.

"Ms Betancourt, a former Colombian presidential candidate, was freed along with 14 other hostages after their captors were apparently tricked into handing them over to army personnel disguised as independent agency staff." BBC

Doesn't anybody have anything to say? Judging by Livi's thread about posting, many guys seem to get there news here (wtf?) so I am surprised no one bothered to post it for the world news impaired amongst us.

Ian

I am sure that dottore would just list it as another US mistake, 125 shifter would call it more US meddling, and Rpska(eh, whatever that frenchies screen name is) whould try to claim that it was only possible because of the french.

I just see it as a damn slick covert operation. Amazingly slick, really.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by nota

SORRY BUT THATS JUST NOT TRUE
Carter tryed but the military screwed up [chopper crash]

The military screwed up?

OMFG, what utter ignorance.

How about Carter directed the US military to develop contingency plans to rescue the hostages, but the reality of what was asked required a plan so elaborate, complex and precise that it bordered on laughable.

That the US military was ordered to execute the plan regardless, and that even after the strike force dropped below the minimum required levels long before it reached the target area, it was ordered in anyway.

How about that view of things?

Cause you know, that IS what happened.

[BeyGon]

That Carter fiasco, like most everything Carter touches, was on the news in Europe as it was taking off. Everyone knew it was happening and these were people Carter picked for the mission.
The only person to blame is Carter.

[svandamme]

it wasn't an escape, it was a rescue

escape is when the captive get's out on his own
rescue is when somebody goes in and get's the captive out

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by nota

SORRY BUT THATS JUST NOT TRUE
Carter tryed but the military screwed up [chopper crash]
ronnie raygun's people [o north] BRIBED that deal trading arms to iran
to keep the hostages intill the oath [perlonging the hostages stay]
that what led to the IRAN CONTRA mess that ronnie forgot [LIED ABOUT]
I guess you can inc bribes as ''any means'' but that was still trading with the enemy
and hardly honorable esp when the bribes are arms
and against both the law and policy

Did you pass 4th grade grammer and spelling yet? If yes, then might be a good idea to return because you got screwed on whatever you paid them...

[nota]

I was unaware that jimmy crashed the chopper

but it was a try not did nothing

and was far more honorable then trading arms to fix an election
and cause the people to be held hostage longer then needed
but our neo-conned members have as good a memory as ronnie raygun did for the TRUTH

[nota]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Did you pass 4th grade {grammar} [miss-spelled ] and spelling yet? If yes, then might be a good idea to return because you got screwed on whatever you paid them...

well IF you can not dispute the facts
attack away at the grammar
because that ALL YOU GOT ?

btw about the most useless thing on earth is an ENGLISH MAJOR

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by nota

I was unaware that jimmy crashed the chopper

but it was a try not did nothing

and was far more honorable then trading arms to fix an election
and cause the people to be held hostage longer then needed
but our neo-conned members have as good a memory as ronnie raygun did for the TRUTH

You are absolutely correct.

The only bad thing about this op is that they cannot be fooled this way again. And there are still about 700 captives. But it should help demoralize them & cause some infighting, so maybe they will give up.

Guerrilla movements never start without some legit. beef by some segment of the country. I hope Columbia will address whatever started this one. I recognize they are essentially a narco-gang now, but that isn't how it started. Also, the right wing paramilitaries that sprung up to fight these guys needs to bed down for the night. Then maybe the poor people in Columbia can get some rest.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by nota

I was unaware that jimmy crashed the chopper

Jimmy Carter killed all those men. That operation should have never been authorized, and what's more it should have been aborted in the early stages.

It was a disaster waiting to happen, and it did.

[dipso]

This in the news today, and pictures. She is hot.
On a side note, doesn't six years in captivity mean you get the republican presidential nomination

Ingrid Betancourt arrived in France today after being held captive for six years in the Colombian jungle, amid claims that a ransom was paid to free her.

The Colombian government said that she was freed in an audacious operation after the military tricked Farc into handing the French-Colombian politician over without a shot being fired.

But quoting "reliable sources", Swiss Radio reported that a ransom was paid of around $20m (Ł10m).

It said that the US, which had three citizens among those freed, was behind the deal and that "the whole operation afterwards was a set-up".

[livi]

Several witnesses report having seen John Rambo on sight.

She must be a strong person. Surviving under such primitive and awful circumstances for so many years. The human animal is an enigma. It can be extraordinary tough and resilient at times, but such a week, whining dependent baby at other times.

Edit: I was planning on using a few other words, but the Spell Check did not list them so I changed them, not to look like a complete foreign fool again..

[BeyGon]

Originally Posted by livi

Several witnesses report having seen John Rambo on sight.

She must be a strong person. Surviving under such primitive and awful circumstances for so many years. The human animal is an enigma. It can be extraordinary tough and resilient at times, but such a week, whining dependent baby at other times.

Edit: I was planning on using a few other words, but the Spell Check did not list them so I changed them, not to look like a complete foreign fool again..

Spell Check, you have that? I bet some people here don't know they have it.

[Rick Lee]

Dr. K nails it again.

How Hostages, And Nations, Get Liberated

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, July 11, 2008; A17

On the day the Colombian military freed Ingrid Betancourt and 14 other long-held hostages, the Italian Parliament passed yet another resolution demanding her release. Europe had long ago adopted this French-Colombian politician as a cause celebre. France had made her an honorary citizen of Paris, passed numerous resolutions and held many vigils.

Unfortunately, karma does not easily cross the Atlantic. Betancourt languished for six years in cruel captivity until freed in a brilliant operation conducted by the Colombian military, intelligence agencies and special forces -- an operation so well executed that the captors were overpowered without a shot being fired.

This in foreign policy establishment circles is called "hard power." In the Bush years, hard power is terribly out of fashion, seen as a mere obsession of cowboys and neocons. Both in Europe and America, the sophisticates worship at the altar of "soft power" -- the use of diplomatic and moral resources to achieve one's ends.

Europe luxuriates in soft power, nowhere more than in l'affaire Betancourt in which Europe's repeated gestures of solidarity hovered somewhere between the fatuous and the destructive. Europe had been pressing the Colombian government to negotiate for the hostages. Venezuela's Hugo Chávez offered to mediate.

Of course, we know from documents captured in a daring Colombian army raid into Ecuador in March -- your standard hard-power operation duly denounced by that perfect repository of soft power, the Organization of American States -- that Chávez had been secretly funding and pulling the strings of the FARC. These negotiations would have been Chávez's opportunity to gain recognition and legitimacy for his terrorist client.

Colombia's President Álvaro Uribe, a conservative and close ally of President Bush, went instead for the hard stuff. He has for years. As a result, he has brought to its knees the longest-running and once-strongest guerrilla force on the continent by means of "an intense military campaign [that] weakened the FARC, killing seasoned commanders and prompting 1,500 fighters and urban operatives to desert" ( Washington Post). In the end, it was that campaign -- and its agent, the Colombian military -- that freed Betancourt.

She was, however, only one of the high-minded West's many causes. Solemn condemnations have been issued from every forum of soft-power fecklessness -- the European Union, the United Nations, the G-8 foreign ministers -- demanding that Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe stop butchering his opponents and step down. Before that, the cause du jour was Burma, where a vicious dictatorship allowed thousands of cyclone victims to die by denying them independently delivered foreign aid lest it weaken the junta's grip on power.

And then there is Darfur, a perennial for which myriad diplomats and foreign policy experts have devoted uncountable hours at the finest five-star hotels to deplore the genocide and urgently urge relief.

What is done to free these people? Nothing. Everyone knows it will take the hardest of hard power to remove the oppressors in Zimbabwe, Burma, Sudan and other godforsaken places where the bad guys have the guns and use them. Indeed, as the Zimbabwean opposition leader suggested (before quickly retracting) from his hideout in the Dutch embassy -- Europe specializes in providing haven for those fleeing the evil that Europe does nothing about -- the only solution is foreign intervention.

And who's going to intervene? The only country that could is the country that in the past two decades led coalitions that liberated Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan. Having sacrificed much blood and treasure in its latest endeavor -- the liberation of 25 million Iraqis from the most barbarous tyranny of all, and its replacement with what is beginning to emerge as the Arab world's first democracy -- and having earned near-universal condemnation for its pains, America has absolutely no appetite for such missions.

And so the innocent languish, as did Betancourt, until some local power, inexplicably under the sway of the Bush notion of hard power, gets it done -- often with the support of the American military. "Behind the rescue in a jungle clearing stood years of clandestine American work," explained The Post. "It included the deployment of elite U.S. Special Forces . . . a vast intelligence-gathering operation . . . and training programs for Colombian troops."

Upon her liberation, Betancourt offered profuse thanks to God and the Virgin Mary, to her supporters and the media, to France and Colombia and just about everybody else. As of this writing, none to the United States.

[RWebb]

"The only country that could [intervene] is the country that in the past two decades led coalitions that liberated Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan."

- That's silly -- there are hundreds of countries who could intervene in Sudan/Dafur. hell, we send a dozen rappers over there, and they'd have the place subjugated in a week.

Zimbabwe, Burma - those are harder, but there are still dozens of countries who could do it.


CK should have said "The only country that _would_ ...."

and we won't. They don't have any oil. The most we might do is send the air force in if we can find somebody to be the ground troops -- like we did in Bosnia.

Ck - should have mentioned that more -- the US has to go in and save muslims in Europe. In freakin' EUROPE...

The Euro Union should be ashamed.