ammo question: grain size
 

I'm going to get some more bulk ammo, and in 9mm you typically have 115, 124 and 147g. I understand that heavier = slower, but beyond that is there a "conventional wisdom" on why you'd choose one over the other? In my case this is strictly for range use.

If it's just for the range, get whatever's cheapest. If you're concerned about recoil with your son shooting, the heavier stuff tends to kick less. 7000 grains to one pound. There are charts, probably online, showing the muzzle velocities and chamber PSI's for each weight of bullet and powder charge. IIRC, the higher muzzle velocities kick more.

Right. For the range, go cheap.

Lighter bullets move faster of course, but heavier ones pack a wallop. In my experience hunting deer and elk, a 120 gr bullet is a bit wimpy. A 180 gr bullet will put the animal on his ass immediately.

I dunno about handguns, frankly.

I just get the standard stuff for the range. I think it's 230gr. for .45ACP and 147gr. for 9mm.

When I have the .44 mag at the range, there is a world of difference in noise, recoil and flash between 240gr. and 180gr. The 180gr. feels like the world is coming to an end, rattles the fillings in my teeth, blinds me and feels like hitting the heel of my hand with a baseball bat. It usually gets everyone else's attention too.

For home defense I use Winchester Ranger 9mm luger Law Enforcement rounds. 147 grain hollowpoints. I would NOT want to be hit with one. Ever.

For the carbine (Ruger PC9) I use CCI Blazer aluminum cased ammo.

For the range, whatever. I typically don't like reloads, but I'll shoot them in a pinch. Most ranges require FMJ, non-lead these days anyway.

Info:

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/pdf.aspx?pdf=LEPDF/2006%20Poster_Front.pdf

The heavier bullets carry more energy. More damage, deeper penetration. For the range I would stick with the least expensive ones, regardless of bullet weight.

I shoot the 115 gr. Winchester target rounds at the range. They are usually the cheapest.

But yes, go with whatever is cheapest for range use.

250gr black moly sierra BTHP .338 win mag puts an elk on its ass. one shot-one kill.

crap wadcutters for the range and 147gr for protection. lots of cop/badguy articles about lack of 9mm stopping power hence why i carry a .45 with 240gr federal hydrashoks same as cops here(CCW class lesson carry same as cops).

but on other side of coin i can group a 9mm a hell of alot better (no matter what grain or mfg) than i can ANY .45! and with my hk vp70z that has 19 rds capacity.......well if you or anyone can get up after 19 rounds..........YOU ARE TRULY IMMORTAL AND I WILL WORSHIP THE GROUND YOU WALK ON! and in that case you can probably also walk on water!!!!

lots of reload 9mms out there. cheaper than dirt comes to mind. can get quite a few reloads out of an 9mm case before it expands beyond SAMMI SPECS!

Heavier= penetration, lighter= more muzzle energy.(generally speaking)

I like how you think. . . My next handgun will almost certainly be a .45 1911 or similar. When I get a few more bills paid off. . .

i have a few pistols. the one with me is a Sig. it was shooting all over the place with the cheapo bulk fodder. the man next to me, turned out to be a co-worker of mine. he recognized me and told me that my pistol should group better. he put some winchester ammo in mine and shot a single ragged hole. i learned my lesson. the funny thing is that my co-worker has a really crazy wandering eye. the man can shoot.

Buy a box of each, see which one groups best in your particular gun. 147gr handloads shoot well in my Browning HiPower for example.
-Chris

Todd,

The usual reason for heavier bullets has been discussed above. Shooting long range is where the selection of the bullet by weight and other factors is much more important.

One thing not mentioned is long range shooting where a heavier bullet is not disturbed as much as a lighter one by wind and other factors. As well when shooting at a critter through brush and such a lighter bullet will not deflect as easily as a heavier one.

For the range its not a big issue either way but as long as you are shooting shorter distances any of them work fine. In other words, get the cheaper ones! :)

Everyone is talking about the bullets, which is fine, but let shift gears and talk about the gun for a moment. What is it zeroed with? Does it have fixed or adjustable sights? Heavier bullets impact higher than lighter bullets when fired from a handgun at typical handgun ranges. Kind of counter intuitive, I know. A heavier bullet will both be moving slower, and will generate more, not less recoil. So it has two things that add up to a higher point of impact: greater recoil and more barrel time. The muzzle has risen higher before the bullet exits the muzzle. The difference in point of impact can be significant; up to a foot at 25 yards.

I'm sure some folks wonder why this would matter. Hold lower or higher and blaze away, and you should be fine, right? Well, yes, as a matter of fact, you will be fine. The trouble starts when you start adjusting sights to move the point of impact to match your practice load, if it impacts higher or lower than your "serious" load. A lot of folks forget to adjust them back, and to verify that adjustment before going home. The gun gets loaded with the defensive load of choice, but is no longer sighted in for that load. That would be bad.

Or you could ask Snowman :-b

Tom

+1 Jeff gave you sound advise. Your weapon will behave differently with different rounds.

Nostatic,
The "best" bullet weight is dependant on the job. If you want to shoot the cheapest ammunition for practice and it dosen't hit the point of aim, there are several things you can do;adjust your hold over/under, adjust your sights if adjustable, or just try for the tightest group regardless of where the bullets strike in relation to your point of aim. This last one may sound strange but it is a perfectly functional method. After all, it only practice ammo, not serious defensive stuff, and you can easily set up targets that show grouping and a target for the aimming point. If you can shoot tight groups or double taps quickly, then you have mastered 90% of the mechanics of gun control in a defensive mode. PM me if you don't get the picture.
As far as bullet weight and recoil, the lighter the bullet in a 9mm, the lighter the recoil. The most common LW 9mm is 115 gr., but you can find 105 and 92.5 and 90 gr. if you look. But for defensive use I would use the 124 gr. and 147 gr. in a high quality hollow point like Federal, Hornady, Winchester or Cor Bon.

The 115 cor-bons are a great defensive round if you don't have barrier concerns, but they unfortunately discontinued their 147's some years ago. Most standard pressure 147s are subsonic, and a lot of pistols don't cycle too well with them. The Cor-bon 147 was +P so cycled well, hit very hard KE wise(standard vel 147s are very 'weak' compared to the 115gr +P corbon, which actually rivals 110gr .357 magnum) and had awesome penetration, but again, they don't make it anymore.

For practice just get whatever groups the best.

QUOTE: "...but beyond that is there a "conventional wisdom" on why you'd choose one over the other?"
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You can 'tune' different guns/rifles with different powders/loads/bullet weights just as you tune an engine with jetting/plugs/etc. Barrel length, rifling 'twist', action, etc. can make a difference in what one firearm prefers (ammo specs.) over another.

If you are just 'plinking' at the range and accuracy is not a factor, buy the cheapest ammo.

If later on, you want to find what the gun/rifle likes (performs best with) ...you have lots to experiment with.

I'd base it on wind concerns and target type - mainly - I don't mean paper targets - things you wanna destroy.

Teh Army is having a very similar debate in Iraq right now. Our rounds are designed to cut thru leaves in the Vietnamese jungle and still kill VC. A lot of guys are saying they have shot Iraqi bads several times with these small, fast rounds and the bads don't die until AFTER firing off a clip or an RPG, etc. Not what you really want.

Any of you guys shooting 40 cal.? I have a S&W model 4006 and I first started with Georgia Arms 180 grain full metal jacket. The gun seemed to like those rounds and shot well. I bought some 165 grain reloads from a local firm and the last time at the range I had a few FTF's. So what are you guys uesing in your 40's?

I use the white box from Walmart in the .40. Last box was 180, but before that it was 165. If it's sized right it should cycle fine with either.

See if you can find some factory loaded, IMI 158grn Blue-tip 9mm. Very low report and usually very mild, as far as recoil goes. But this also depends on the weapons used. I know that it works fine in all of my 9's, but... your nine probably varies a great deal from my 9's. This IMI factory loaded ammo is very clean burning and runs out of a 10.5" tube down to a 5.75" tube at anywhere between 1022fps and 847fps respectively, with over 400ft/lb of muzzle energy, depending on weapon and crhono's. Plus, it is a very accurate, purposeful round. Tony.

I know there are some folks that here that have serious backgrounds in weaponry. But I had always heard that heavy bullets are deflected less. From what I recall, the .223 was adopted for several reasons.
1. We'd rather wound than kill. It takes 1or 2 soldiers to tend to a casualty.
2. Lighter ammo means you can carry more.
3. Lighter weapon

Snipers get paid to kill. They use much larger rounds, .308 & 50 cal, if I'm not mistaken.

Mule, that is a very good possibility, on the "wounding effect" 5.56 is also available as more effective 75grn TAP round. The problem is with using these heavy 5.56 bullets, you must also have a weapon that is designed to shoot them accurately. A 1-in-7 or a 1-in-9 twist, should only be used for these types of heavy rounds, to achieve the desired effect, bullet placement and results. What part of choo-choo are you located? I have been going there since the early 60's. I almost moved there at one time. One of the best spots to be in around the Smokies. Tony.

We need to ask ourselves just how deeply we want to get into these questions, because "is 5.56 enough, what is it's purpose, and should we use a bigger round" is a very controversial subject on military boards.

For general soldiering, MHO is that the 5.56 and the M-4/M-16 is a great weapon for a co-ed military.

Yep and when I was wearing a green uniform and doing this we used the 30.06. Still a great round.

There is a reason why the military is going back to the .45 ACP caliber. It works and works well.

The original M-80 7.62x51mm(aka .308) round was loaded to the exact same performance as the US M1 .30 caliber (.30-06 round).

It is a damn fine battlefield round, but it's actually somewhat marginal for sniping duties.

BTW, IMO i think the 9mm is actually clearly superior to the .45 ACP for military duties(ie duties where you are restricted to FMJ ammunition). The Winchester NATO Q round has significantly more muzzle energy than 230gr ball, and is much deeper penetrating, not to mention having less recoil and being chambered in sidearms with twice the magazine capacity. It's not that i think .45 ACP is bad, just that for military purposes, the 9mm is better in all the most important categories. I can see MPs and CID wanting .45s, and perhaps Specops as well, since they are authorized to use JHP ammunition.