There are two types of people in this world: those that divide people into two groups, and those who don't.

I completely disagree with your caricature. You need to lay off the blogs/innertoobz/radio/TV and go out and talk to some real human beings. I don't think you're going to find the Republican you painted above. Nice rhetoric, though.

Or it could just be the bleach fumes getting to you.

no it's detagging a few thousand pair of pants so they can go to garment dye.

I take a break after each box and waste my 5 minutes here.

When you do eventually sub all this work out, you need to make sure the sweatshop doesn't have internet access....

So I guess the choice is 4 years of no change and nothing getting accomplished under McCain (since I don't see any support of his "ideas", but rather "he's not Obama"), or 4 years of a puppet controlled by Pelosi and Reid driving us down the drain of socialism and killing the country.

Seems both paths kill the country...

#1 - barry o's plans are not all on the web-site. just do the math - who is going to pay for all this?
#2 - sarkosy and merkel have already politely declined.
#3 - mccain sounds like the one who will respond to events and be flexible.
#4 - democrates borrow for everything as well. look at the state governments of massachusetts and new york. coming off the rails now - huge slow motion train wrecks..
#5 - not enough of the "wealthy" to go around. the target will move to high wage earners in high income states. more wealth transfer - and at the expense of those who have supported him the most from the beginning.
#6 - T.Boone is stupid like a fox. And us poor taxpayers are the hens. His money will "pay" for the wind farm scam - but our tax dollars will pay for the "tax breaks" and other sweetners that will make him nice profits..

OK. But that'll be extra.

see my first post. I have the same questions. The problem is that McCain has plans that have no obvious funding as well. They both are blowing smoke up our skirts.

Which plans are not on the website? There already is way too much there to pay for...

I previously looked at both of their official sites and here is what stands out to me.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

1. The order of the issues.
Obama (1) Civil Rights (2) Defense (3) Disability (4) Economy
McCain (1) Economy (2) Energy (3) Security (4) Health Care

Yes I realize that Obama is in alphabetical order. McCain's seem to be in order of priority. So how do I know which issues are highest in Obama's eyes? I personally think the order of McCain's issues is more correct.

2. Obama's "Blueprint for America" has a large (IMO) focus on unionizing. This is not surprising per say but I work for a company that is dealing with potential unionization. I can say for SURE that it would kill this company. It is an international semiconductor company that is struggling to turn around. Enlarge this to the national level and I don't see anything good for the economy...

3. The biggest problem I see is the economy. I actually give McCain the benefit that he admits that he is not an economic genius. I don't expect the president to "know" everything. If he gets the right people and stays out of the way, the US will be much better off then someone who considers themselves an expert on everything. But Obama was a community organizer who went from $70k to $400k right. Besides he "consults" with guys like Warren Buffet..... :rolleyes:

4. I am more interested right now with who they both surround themselves with. That will be a very telling factor.

By definition we will have change. Bush can't win again....

Wait, you said "We either become active". I want a president who will basically get out of the peoples way and let them do what needs to be done. I don't want want a president that is all about the "I will save the country." The president should lead by guiding small corrections to the direction not by dictating change to the population. (for their own good of course)

McCain would not have been my first choice but between him and Obama, I have go with McCain causing less damage. (pending announcement of surrounding staff/cabinet)

Spot on. McCain is more a political manger, whereas Obama is being politically managed. All sorts of Lib's see Obama as somewhat an empty vessel, a political neophyte, who can be easily swayed/ controlled with standard Liberal guilt.

Does anyone think that Obama, given the power of the presidency, is suddenly going to start working to bring together this country? He certainly didn't bring people together during his year as a state senator ... He certainly didn't bring people together during his campaign for POTUS. (well, other than some Germans. David Hasslehoff must be pissed)

Barrack (aka Barry) Hussein Obama is an arrogant egotistical scam man, who is after a popularity contest and power for himself. McCain, OTOH, is a a managing type American-politician who sides with his country first.

Pure comedy gold.

Anyone who pursues the presidency is a raging egomaniac/power monger. Frankly, no sane person would go through the process. To me that is the saddest aspect of politics today.

How do you know that McCain was trying to put them in alphabetical order and just got confused? ;)

I to would like to see a heirarchy of the talking points, but I'm not going to take him to task for using alphabetical organization.

The people who surround McCain should he be elected will be key, and imho it is a big "if" that he picks good ones.

whoa, wait a second, when did you guys switch from the "Obama is a Muslim" to "Obama is/will be easily controlled" talking point?

Is he still racist? is his flag pin OK these days? is he still going to demand white women sleep with him every other Tuesday as part of a random lottery?

Shaun, you aren't getting the memos. As near as I can figure, the trail is something like this:

He's a closet Muslim, and will turn the US into a Muslim country
He's the next Hitler, since he is a charismatic speaker and forceful leader
He's the next Castro (see above)
He's actually a weak puppet for Reid/Pelosi

Maybe next he'll be gay or possibly trans-gender. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Missed one
http://www.globemagazine.com/media/2008-32.jpg

Estelle died?!?!?

I need to take the rest of the day off from work...too verklempt...

Spot on, the cabinet/staff is the ticket. Watch closely to who's in the lineup before you vote.

I agree, a cabinet is very important. but will McCain lead his cabinet with vision, will he listen to it when/if he asks for feedback, or will he just fight with it? or will he just ignore it? he's a maverick after all, not a leader.

thanks for the chronology, I can't keep up with them. I think next thing they'll throw at the wall will be a photoshop of his older daughter selling crack, cause everyone knows that's what blackfolks do.

And Nobama, with his illustrious background od community organization & teleprompter reading, is?

For 12 years he was a successful law professor at the University of Chicago, which no doubt in Mule-world makes him even less qualified to lead.

If only he had run a few major corporations into the ground (Bush, Fiorina, etc), maybe then we could respect him.

I struck a nerve, eh? While I tend to agree with your sentiments about needing to be a bit crazy to pursue the office, I can also sort out differences. Obama is out feeding his rock-star ego. McCain is out campaigning to be a manager. Not some “we will change it all” BS coming from a neophyte social worker. Obama wants to play the part of Robinhood, and have big stories told about his 'fairness." McCain wants to keep the ship sailing well. Small course corrections... Obama (and his followers) want to rock the boat, just for spite.

I never said he would be easily controlled. I was saying that people like Pelosi invite him, as THEY SEE Obama as relatively easily controlled Lib. . . they see their vast political experience over his. <--- I think that is pretty obvious.

Something tells me you're going to be damned miserable over the next 4 years, damned miserable.

You are so right! Can you list a few great leaders / college professors for me?

Thats kind of a red-herring, though I do appreciate the chance to learn about our past presidents. The best I could do is this:

Twenty-six Presidents were lawyers before becoming president.

Teaching law may not be the same as practicing law, but that didn't earn John Edwards any respect either so I guess its a mute point.

I was just pointing out the bias in your statement quoting his qualifications as "... community organization & teleprompter reading". Wayne was claiming he was more qualified than Obama the other day too, strange. But you're right, teaching law at the U of Chicago for 12 years isn't as sexy as running a company into the ground or riding the family coat-tails into wealth and fame, but its worthy of respect in my book.

Sex has nothing to do with it. It's about leadership. College professors are commonly dolts with knowledge in one subject. Your point wasn't moot. It was a loser. The pimp hand flies again.

52% of Americans owned stock in 2005, up from 19% in 1983. Move people into IRAs, and 401Ks and support the companies that beef up those retirement benefits. That's a better plan than the pyramid scheme that is Social Security.

The world changes. Expect the EU to be doing their own thing soon enough. NATOs time has passed.

Was over-stretched under Clinton and Clinton drastically reduced the size of the military. Which is worse? As long as most Americans believe that we have a need to protect our interests abroad, they will be thin. Get used to it. PS. we're still in Kosovo too you know.

They all do it and no one likes it. Don't just blame Bush for this. There has been a Dem congress for a while now. I don't see frugality running rampant in DC.

Interest rates under Carter were as high as 21.5%. Inflation as over 10%/yr. Gas prices were higher than they are now adjusted for inflation. Growth was less than 1%. They created a word just for him; Stagflation.

This is a great one. The democrats and environmental lobby have blocked all new nuclear power plants in this country. It's been over 35 years since the last plant broke ground. Wind and sun won't do it. How do you propose to keep 300 million people with a standard of living that they like without carbon or nuclear fuel?

So what if oil is non-renewable (not that I think it is but), so we run out. Then what? Does the sky fall then?

AFAIK, the Earth as a decent example of a closed system. Carbon is carbon, it just may take different forms.


More what? Be specific?

Perhaps only at your college?

You're giving Mule waaaaaaaay too much credit. Do you actually think he went to college?

Perhaps at Harvard where they taught Obama the razor sharp reasoning that enabled him to figure out that that inflating tires would solve the energy crisis. Perhaps at yours where they taught you Che was cool?

Clearly an ad hominem couple, like you two, has advanced degrees in argumentation. You 2 really know how to throw up an effective counter argument.:rolleyes:

Barry O' is not where he is because of his single experience as a law prof. If you think that he is, please explain. BHO is not on stage now for anything other than being a well spoken, mixed-race malcontent. He spews general displeasure with "bad" and wants to play on emotions of simpletons who will bite on the worm that they have been wronged.

Obama is where he is because he is not stupid, the public is tired of retarded candidates and senile candidates, they want somebody that can think. He is leading in the polls.
He is well spoken because he is smart. Your side is funny, attacking his strong suit.
It only points out how incoherent McCain is.
" he is too smart, uses big words, uppity, college boy."

A lot of people are mixed race, and the rest don't seem to care. Are you confusing mixed race with mixed color?

About 70% of the population is malcontent. The other 30% is incontinent.
Should be a cakewalk for Obama.
90 days for McCain is a lifetime. He should be changing his depends about then.

Isn't he supposed to pick his VP soon? What's a matter, No takers?

Smart is a matter of perspective.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217547106.jpg

How true. This is how Mc.Cain is,,,, "perspected".

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217547516.jpg

Nostatic: Please don't ignore what I said and create your own threat to defend. I clearly tried to point out (and repeated) that the point is NOT that O is the next Castro but simply that we cannot blindly follow after "change" but we must ask if the solution is better or worse than the problem. Are you capable of understanding what I say here? Lets tone down the rhetoric and get back to the basics. I propose that voting involves the heart. What hills are worth dying for? Economy? Abortion? Ending the war? Legalizing homosexual/lesbian marriage? Lower gas prices? Once you decide which issue has the greatest importance, find the candidate that will fulfill that goal. Obviously, there is no perfect choice. I refuse to vote for Anyone-but-a-Republican or Change-even-if -the-changes-make-things-worse. Frankly, I ain't with either candidate but I cannot stand behind the things one of them is in favor of.

you submitted the article "without comment." It was pretty clear to some of us what the original author's point was.

I never said we should blindly follow "change," but rather that change is going to happen. So the only question is the direction and implementation, and whether you steer or let the boat drift.

That rhetoric is pretty toned down (as was my other post on the thread). Maybe I should make jokes about Kennedy's alcohol problems instead...

speaking of rhetoric, it is good to have some things in life you can count on :p

I truly don't understand how people, mostly on the right, can't find out for themselves what this "change" is that scares them so much.
It could be a simple "daddy figure" thing that won't let them find out things on their own.

I just typed in "Obama proposed changes" and this was one the many answers.
What is so hard about that?

Issues Facing Our Nation
Most Americans realize the problems facing our nation and the world today. With this realization comes despair. But out of despair, we have hope....and that hope is change.

What are the answers to the issues we face today?

Immigration:

This is the greatest nation on earth, and affords its citizen an unblocked path to greatness, should they so choose. But, our borders are flooded with illegal aliens from almost all nations on this earth, with by the far the greatest number flooding over from Mexico. The Pew Hispanic Center used Census Bureau data to estimate that the United States had 11.1 million illegal immigrants in March 2005. The center used monthly population estimates to project a current total of 11.5 million to 12 million. Some say that in reality, this true number of illegals is double.

The answer? You hear "We need comprehensive immigration reform". We already have this...it's called the law. It is illegal to enter this country without the proper documentation. If you're here illegally, you MUST be deported. We have proper channels to become a citizen in this country. What we really need to offset the costs of housing, feeding, teaching, and healing illegals, mostly from Mexico, is for Vicente Fox to send us 1 barrel of oil for every illegal in this country. That would mean 12 to 20 million barrels a month to offset the costs we incur on our great nation.

Fuel Prices
Why do I pay $4+ dollars for a gallon of gas?
It's no mystery why we pay so much for gas at the pump. Along with everything else in this great country, we import oil instead of producing some of it domestically. We don't control the supply, so we don't control the prices. We need to drill domestically. We can do this in an environmentally sound manner. Our methods of oil discovery and extraction are more advanced today than they were in the last several decades. Did you know you pay almost 60 cents in taxes for every gallon of gas? I suggest we have a stay on taxes at the pump. This would be a real stimulus package.


National Health Care
Is a national health care plan the answer? Absolutely not! If you've had the unfortunate circumstance of visiting your local branch of the Department of Motor Vehicles you'll understand why our government needs to stay as far away from our health as possible. Look at other countries that have national health coverage. You'll find enormous waiting periods to get treated, with most of their citizens traveling to our great nation to get the health coverage they need. We must support torte reform. Without frivolous lawsuit, malpractice insurance rates will drop, and health care costs will follow. Without excessive illegals sapping our health care system, our hospitals will stay in business, and continue to provide the best health care in the world.


Education is key in understanding the issues we all face. Without a true understanding of the complexities of the issues, one cannot make informed decisions.

This stuff sounds pretty good to me, And I'll bet to a lot of you righties too.