Icy reality cools the climate cultists

[RWebb]

CRH911S is correct regarding acidification of the oceans. That is a direct effect of CO2 that does not operate via global warming.

Another direct effect is the enhancement of certain types of plants over others. For example, juniper trees are taking over sage brush shrublands in interior N. America. You may not care about sagebrush - it is not a very pretty plant - but its demise is causing the extinction of numerous animals, not to mention some big headaches for ranchers.

Seahawk criticizes CRH911S for a non-adult comment, but what about the numerous ones made by those on Seahawk's "side"???

[island911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

CRH911S is correct regarding acidification of the oceans. That is a direct effect of CO2 that does not operate via global warming.

Another direct effect is the enhancement of certain types of plants over others. For example, juniper trees are taking over sage brush shrublands in interior N. America. You may not care about sagebrush - it is not a very pretty plant - but its demise is causing the extinction of numerous animals, not to mention some big headaches for ranchers.

Seahawk criticizes CRH911S for a non-adult comment, but what about the numerous ones made by those on Seahawk's "side"???

Sounds like you are against change.

Trust me on this, sagebrush will be just fine.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Earth in the Balance, like other Gore output, is a popularization based on his reading and discussion with climate scientists. It was never subject to peer review and does contain a few inaccuracies. Gore can be credited, however, with delivering an important "wake up" message to many people. I have some friends who are/were neighbors of his ( the guy used to run a chemical plant for Ethyl Corp.) - they are elderly and staunch Republicans BTW. They say he is a very sincere man.

Really? That might be the story in Orygun. Here's the Tennessee take on it.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17728

Indeed, 24 years ago in his first run for Congress, Gore won an overwhelming 94 percent of the vote. His dominance was such that he ran unopposed for his next two House terms. And when he ran for his second term in the Senate a decade ago, Gore became the first statewide candidate in Tennessee's history to take all 95 counties.

So why did Gore lose Tennessee on Nov. 7 -- the first time a presidential candidate has failed to win his own state since George McGovern lost his native South Dakota in 1972?

Valentine initially broke a story on Gore's ties to alleged criminal figures in Wilson County, Tenn., next door to Gore's home county. Shortly after that, WorldNetDaily ran a series of investigative reports detailing Gore's involvement in and interference with criminal investigations linked to his uncle, retired judge Whit LaFon and top campaign fundraisers like Clark Jones, of Savannah, Tenn. According to Valentine, it was stories like those that spelled Gore's defeat.

Or maybe it's this:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=4304

Although Al Gore frequently hammers George W. Bush about Houston's air pollution being the worst in the nation, Gore neglects to mention that in a recent study the Environmental Protection Agency found Tennessee's water pollution to be the second-worst in the nation. And Gore especially avoids mentioning that he is directly responsible for some of that water pollution.

In fact, starkly contrasting with his passionate speeches or warnings in his best-selling book, "Earth in the Balance," about ozone depletion and other urgent environmental topics, Gore has a long-standing reputation for polluting the environment in Tennessee.

Gore's environmental depredations began in 1973 after he bought a farm near Carthage, Tenn., loaded with zinc from his father, Albert Gore Sr., who had acquired it from Armand Hammer, an oil tycoon, art forger, stock swindler and longtime friend of several Soviet dictators. Gore Sr. had been on Hammer's payroll from 1950 to 1970 while the elder Gore was also a senator from Tennessee. After his defeat in 1970, he became senior vice president of Hammer's Occidental Petroleum Co., and headed its subsidiary, Island Creek Coal Co.

Al Gore Jr. leased the mineral rights back to an Occidental-affiliated company at $20,000 a year, which was much higher than the going rate. Gore now owns about $1.1 million in land near Carthage.


Over the years, toxic waste products ended up in a "tailings pond," from which water flows into the adjacent Caney Fork River, of which Gore frequently waxes eloquently about its pristine waters, and then subsequently into the larger Cumberland River. Recent tests revealed that zinc levels in the pond exceed EPA and Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation mandated levels. Last May, state officials issued a notice of violation, ordering Pasminco Zinc Co., which currently operates Gore's zinc concessions, to clean up the mess. To date, Pasminco Zinc Co. has not cleaned up the reported violation and the state has taken no further action to pursue the matter.

In 1996, during the same time Gore was running for reelection as vice president, claiming to be an environmentalist, the zinc mining operation on his property twice failed tests designed to protect water quality in the Caney Fork. The Wall Street Journal recently commissioned two independent laboratories to test the water in the Caney Fork, both of which concluded there were large quantities of barium, iron and zinc in the water, as well as smaller quantities of arsenic, chromium and lead.

Brian McGuire, executive director of Tennessee Citizens Action, an environmental group, told The Tennessean newspaper in Nashville, "Clearly, when you spread those types of chemicals around on a farm or on the land, you're going to get a lot of runoff. So it's going to get into the water. We're poisoning ourselves."

Tennessee residents say Gore becomes testy when they attempted to question him about this pollution.

"He (Gore) gets real angry," Tom Gniewek, a retired chemical engineer from Camden, Tenn., told The Wall Street Journal. "Instead of answering the question, he attacked my motives and accused people like me of vandalizing the earth."

We can argue about the carbon footprint foolishness, but would anybody like to uphold for Al putting lead and chromium into the water?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Another direct effect is the enhancement of certain types of plants over others. For example, juniper trees are taking over sage brush shrublands in interior N. America. You may not care about sagebrush - it is not a very pretty plant - but its demise is causing the extinction of numerous animals, not to mention some big headaches for ranchers

Who gives a spit? Other animals and critters that like Juniper trees will fill the vacuum.

Adapt or die, that is the way of mother nature.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Seahawk criticizes CRH911S for a non-adult comment, but what about the numerous ones made by those on Seahawk's "side"???

I don't have a side...I simply hate dogma oozed by zealots who have traded discourse for, "nanny nanny boo boo".

Look, many on this BBS have stated the following: It is important to look at conservation, at rational ways of ensuring we husband our resources. I am all for that. What I am not for is fear mongering.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Who gives a spit? Other animals and critters that like Juniper trees will fill the vacuum.

Adapt or die, that is the way of mother nature.

It obviously is NOT mother nature causing extinctions -- nearly all current extinctions are caused by humans.

__________________________________________________ _____
and, no I'm not going to take someones "Word" for it that sagebrush ecosystems will be ok.

I'm a professional scientist and have published extensively on it plus I wrote an 800 page review.

What have you done??

[m21sniper]

We are part of nature. In case you hadn't heard.

Phail.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by RWebb

It obviously is NOT mother nature causing extinctions -- nearly all current extinctions are caused by humans.

__________________________________________________ _____
and, no I'm not going to take someones "Word" for it that sagebrush ecosystems will be ok.

I'm a professional scientist and have published extensively on it plus I wrote an 800 page review.

What have you done??

Put down the crack pipe & step away from the torch.

Over half of the species ever to exist on the planet are extinct. Man hasn't been around that long. You are a scientist? We're doomed! Please tell me you don't vote.

[Mule]

Let me guess, the only thing that will save the sagebrush is socialism?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Mule

Let me guess, the only thing that will save the sagebrush is socialism?

Only the Social Elite can save us!

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Mule

From that oil owned rag, the London Daily Telegraph.

DAILY, new evidence emerges to demonstrate that Climate Minister Penny Wong is wrong.

The latest blow to the Government’s apocalyptic prophet is news from the Norwegian Meteorological Institute that there is more ice than normal in the Arctic waters north of the Svalbard archipelago.

According to the Barents Observer there are open areas in this area in most years during July - but this year the area is covered by ice.



http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/icy_reality_cools_the_climate_cultists/

Prehaps all that melt off has diluted the salt, EH ?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Prehaps all that melt off has diluted the salt, EH ?

That will create more freezing which will then re-concentrate the salt, and the earth will balance itself back out, eh?

[RWebb]

not only do you morons post nothing but gibberish, you can't even read:

"current extinctions"

I'm sorry you are too cowardly to entertain ideas that you don't "like" even if they are well supported. GO back and read Jim Sims comment on the Dark Ages.

[m21sniper]

Personal attacks are illegal on this forum Professor.

I stated that mankind is part of nature, thereby all "man caused" extinctions are natural. This is an obvious and indisputable fact. (And i didn't even need a chart.)

Hence you ignored it.

[lendaddy]

Has anyone bothered to tell Mother Earth to stop changing? Maybe if she knew we wanted everything to stay the way it is now???

[Jim Sims]

A few word definitions from a Webster's dictionary:

natural: in a state provided by nature, without man-made changes; wild; uncultivated.

artificial: made by human work or art; opposed to natural

[m21sniper]

"There are no absolute definitions in science," is something i've heard on this discussion board many times.

Is man, or is man not, a creation of nature?

Yes, clearly man is. Hence- anything man does is as natural as anything a beaver or an army ant does.

A simple fact.

[john70t]

So mankind is an animal? Yeah, good luck with the neocon brethren.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by john70t

So mankind is an animal?

Newsflash!
Hasn't this been known to anybody who's studied biology this past century?

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Rearden

Newsflash!
Hasn't this been known to anybody who's studied biology this past century?

John said that. All Sniper asked was if man is a creation of nature. But I think it would be hard to argue otherwise.