For those who belive drugs should be legal...

DavidI · 08-01-2008, 03:58 PM

I have a long commute (1.5 hours home each day) and pass the time listening to books on tape. The book that I am currently listening to is "Beautiful Boy: A Father's Journey Through His Son's Addiction." It is an all too common, but shocking story of how a father deals with the struggle of his son as meth sucks the life away.

Having three kids myself and having witnessed the impact that dope has on families, it is sobering. It is an excellent story.

It pointedly depicts how the family of the addict is torn apart while trying to help their loved one.

Has anyone read or listened to the book?

Superman · 08-01-2008, 04:04 PM

No, I have not. But I have been an alcoholism counselor and a drug testing coordinator and would agree that drugs and alcohol can devastate a life and a family. I continue to believe that treating these scourges as crimes is unhelpful. They are health problems. But yeah, drugs and alcohol can tear families to shreds. Ruin lives. Very, very sad.

m21sniper · 08-01-2008, 04:04 PM

10,000 such books have probably been written WRT alcohol addiction.

Are you suggesting prohibition?

And i have to say, if meth is illegal, how did he get it?

Gogar · 08-01-2008, 04:22 PM

We shouldn't outlaw drugs, we need to outlaw addiction.

carambola · carambola's Garage

i think i heard it here before, but just legalize everything. let god sort it out

epbrown · 08-01-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidI

Having three kids myself and having witnessed the impact that dope has on families, it is sobering. It is an excellent story.

It pointedly depicts how the family of the addict is torn apart while trying to help their loved one.

So, how much time do you think the son should have gotten for using illegal drugs?

Dottore · 08-01-2008, 05:30 PM

I read an interesting paper not long ago in which the writer claimed that the class of people in a given society who are prone to serious substance abuse is a relatively stable and predictable number.

The size of this class will always be roughly the same, no matter how many substances are illegal and legal.

So there really is no point in making anything illegal. These people will either find the illegal substances or they'll turn to legal substances (pills and booze for example). It's all a wash.

The money spent on criminalizing substances (think law enforcement, lawyers, prisons, probation officers, social workers, judges) is actually completely pointless, because those prone to substance abuse will abuse them.

Moreover, by making them legal you do away with the criminal element, you control quality and raise revenue, and you then have the fund to spend on helping the really hard cases with their problems.

If ever there was a no-brainer this was it.

BTW: Has anyone seen Scorceses "Shine a Light" bio pic on the Rolling Stones? There's a wonderful segment in this where the Stones and Buddy Guy play a long version of "if I want get high I'll smoke a reefer" (or whatever this song is called) at a fundraiser for the Bill 'war on drugs' Clinton foundation, with Bill and all his family and friends in attendance. Absolutely brilliant!

Moses · 08-01-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

They are health problems...

Oh hell...

pwd72s · 08-01-2008, 05:49 PM

Super...there are degrees of addiction. I quit smoking pot decades ago...no problem. Quitting my pack a day Camel straight addiction was worse. My love of bourbon remains. But Meth??? Appoint me omnipotent. I'd instantly kill all who produce or sell the stuff.

Wake up folks...meth is worse than heroin ever was or will be...

Law officers here welcome to chime in...

BLEW911 · 08-01-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

I read an interesting paper not long ago in which the writer claimed that the class of people in a given society who are prone to serious substance abuse is a relatively stable and predictable number.

The size of this class will always be roughly the same, no matter how many substances are illegal and legal.

So there really is no point in making anything illegal. These people will either find the illegal substances or they'll turn to legal substances (pills and booze for example). It's all a wash.

The money spent on criminalizing substances (think law enforcement, lawyers, prisons, probation officers, social workers, judges) is actually completely pointless, because those prone to substance abuse will abuse them.

Moreover, by making them legal you do away with the criminal element, you control quality and raise revenue, and you then have the fund to spend on helping the really hard cases with their problems.

If ever there was a no-brainer this was it.

BTW: Has anyone seen Scorceses "Shine a Light" bio pic on the Rolling Stones? There's a wonderful segment in this where the Stones and Buddy Guy play a long version of "if I want get high I'll smoke a reefer" (or whatever this song is called) at a fundraiser for the Bill 'war on drugs' Clinton foundation, with Bill and all his family and friends in attendance. Absolutely brilliant!

Just someone's wishfull thinking.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Super...there are degrees of addiction. I quit smoking pot decades ago...no problem. Quitting my pack a day Camel straight addiction was worse. My love of bourbon remains. But Meth??? Appoint me omnipotent. I'd instantly kill all who produce or sell the stuff.

Wake up folks...meth is worse than heroin ever was or will be...

Law officers here welcome to chime in...

I disagree. The number of people destroyed by meth pales in comparison to those destroyed by alcohol.

Any of these drugs can/will take down those that let them. Yes, there is a biological component to addiction. But there also is a psychological one as well. It isn't the drug's fault. It is the fault of the person and (likely) the parents (for not giving them the skills to cope with pain/reality).

I've done 'em all. For me, coke was the worst, though cigarettes were actually harder to quit. There are no absolutes wrt the drug and how it's going to play out - addiction is addiction. It is up to the individual to get straight. The only use that laws play is that some "hit bottom" when they're arrested and choose that moment to get it together. Beyond that it is a waste of money. The problem is you can't really tell who will respond to that and who won't.

Moses · 08-01-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

I disagree. The number of people destroyed by meth pales in comparison to those destroyed by alcohol.

Any of these drugs can/will take down those that let them. Yes, there is a biological component to addiction. But there also is a psychological one as well. It isn't the drug's fault. It is the fault of the person and (likely) the parents (for not giving them the skills to cope with pain/reality).

I've done 'em all. For me, coke was the worst, though cigarettes were actually harder to quit. There are no absolutes wrt the drug and how it's going to play out - addiction is addiction. It is up to the individual to get straight. The only use that laws play is that some "hit bottom" when they're arrested and choose that moment to get it together. Beyond that it is a waste of money. The problem is you can't really tell who will respond to that and who won't.

I've spent 20+ years working with addicts. Your post echoes my impressions pretty much exactly.

Hard-Deck · 08-01-2008, 06:13 PM

Would drug abuse be classified as natural selection?

crustychief · crustychief's Garage

Meth is pretty fuchng bad at least when alcoholism manifests itself, it goes largely unnoticed for a couple of years before it starts to become the "elephant in the living room" even then it is ignored. Whereas meth is readily apparent early on and is a lot quicker to kill people and relationships.

Moses · 08-01-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crustychief

Meth is pretty fuchng bad at least when alcoholism manifests itself, it goes largely unnoticed for a couple of years before it starts to become the "elephant in the living room" even then it is ignored. Whereas meth is readily apparent early on and is a lot quicker to kill people and relationships.

Meth is FAR WORSE than alcohol if you factor in the number of users. Meth kills you fast. Damn few "functional" meth addicts.

Sure, alcohol and tobacco are the big killers, but a far smaller percentage end up dead compared to meth.

Red Baron · 08-01-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapper33

Would drug abuse be classified as natural selection?

No it's another Republican conspiracy that progressed further under this administration.

DavidI · 08-01-2008, 07:08 PM

I have stated it many times that it is not so much the individual addict who I am concerned about, it is those around them who are victimized too. The addict/user can poison him/herself as long as it does not affect others. The problem is that to buy the dope, the user typically steals, robs, and hurts others.

My opinion, and it is just my opinion, is that if drugs were legalized, more people would try it. Meth is one of those drugs that can instantly own someone. More of our youth would try it, like they do with alcohol or cigarettes, and then may travel down that road to despair.

The story is shocking as to how the father and family attempt to recover the "lost boy."

David

pwd72s · 08-01-2008, 07:14 PM

I find this interesting...law enforcement...the scene on the streets...and the medical side discussing things. Too bad we can't keep the politicians out of the middle. Solutions may be found.

DavidI · 08-01-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

10,000 such books have probably been written WRT alcohol addiction.

Are you suggesting prohibition?

And i have to say, if meth is illegal, how did he get it?

Repo, I am sure you are a history scholar, but prohibiting alcohol was done and failed miserably. The social acceptance of alcohol is much different from alcohol. Many of us drink, but only a very small proportion become alcoholics.

I also heard that there is a street in Philly where you can buy whatever you want......

David

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I've never heard anyone say meth should be legalized. But I don't put that in the same classs as weed.