|
|
|
|
| Author |
|
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
Is democracy appropriate for all people?
I've seen an opinion expressed on PPOT a few times and I thought a poll and discussion of it would be interesting.
The opinion is that democracy is not right for all people, i.e. some people or groups of people are better governed (controlled) by less free or unfree systems like dictatorships, monarchies or central, controlling governments like what exists in China. No need to get into specifics like democracies vs. republics or degrees of freedom, just focus on the opinion that democracy-esque freedom is not appropriate for some. Do all people want to be free; is democracy appropriate for everyone? |
||
08-03-2008, 04:46 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Linn County, Oregon
Posts: 48,510
|
I say NO for all people, sir. In case you don't know it, the USA is a representative republic.
A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner... Alas, too many people in the USA have realized they can vote themselves freebies from the government through which representative they vote for. We're sliding downhill because of this. “The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government, they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get and promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time it is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction of the sale of stolen goods.” -H.L. Mencken
__________________
"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) |
||
|
08-03-2008, 05:29 PM
|
|
|
Registered
|
I've met plenty of people in China who are absolutely supportive of their government and I can't remember the last person I met in the U.S. who was at all supportive of ours. You ought to talk to a Mainland Chinese person about the almost regular fist fights that break out in the Taiwanese parliament and then tell them democracy is better.
Our system may seem fine for us, though I doubt many folks from other "free" countries agree, since so many foreginers claim to love Americans but to hate our government's policies. Why don't we get the blame for that? If N. Korea had free and fair elections tomorrow, Kim Jong Il would still get 100% of the vote and not because there's no opposition there, but because the people are so brainwashed. Even after the Berlin Wall fell, the "reformed" communist party did very well in elections in that part of the country. They changed their name from SED to PDS, but were mostly the same folks with many of the same policies. I think it' fine that we promote democracy abroad, as it's rare for democracies to fight wars with each other. But to claim it's the natural will of all people is a bit of a stretch. We can't even get 50% of eligible voters to vote here.
__________________
2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS |
||
|
08-03-2008, 05:49 PM
|
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
|
If by democracy you mean an elected representative government, the answer is yes.
|
||
|
08-03-2008, 05:55 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Linn County, Oregon
Posts: 48,510
|
Quote:
__________________
"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) |
||
|
08-03-2008, 06:04 PM
|
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
|
That's why i made sure i spelled out what i meant.
There are no 'true' democracies. |
||
|
08-03-2008, 06:12 PM
|
|
|
|
(the shotguns)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 21,570
|
after a little thought i'd say the 'no' answer is the basic principle of racists of every sort.
not to say that answering 'no' makes you a racist (it may mean you are a realist) but thought it was worth pointing out.
__________________
***************************************** Well i had #6 adjusted perfectly but then just before i tightened it a butterfly in Zimbabwe farted and now i have to start all over again! I believe we all make mistakes but I will not validate your poor choices and/or perversions and subsidize the results your actions. |
||
|
08-03-2008, 06:14 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Linn County, Oregon
Posts: 48,510
|
Pure Democracy is a fool's desire, IMHO.
__________________
"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) |
||
|
08-03-2008, 06:33 PM
|
|
|
(the shotguns)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 21,570
|
agreed.
__________________
***************************************** Well i had #6 adjusted perfectly but then just before i tightened it a butterfly in Zimbabwe farted and now i have to start all over again! I believe we all make mistakes but I will not validate your poor choices and/or perversions and subsidize the results your actions. |
||
|
08-03-2008, 06:44 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hamburg & Vancouver
Posts: 7,693
|
I think I have posted my views on this before.
Democracy is like sex. It's great if you're all clean and scrubbed and attractive, and the wine and the music is good. But God help you when you have none of those things going for you.
__________________
_____________________ These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.—Groucho Marx |
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:09 PM
|
|
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
I guess a part of my original post was missed?
Quote:
Dictatorships are okay for "some people"? Curious and curiouser . . . |
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:20 PM
|
|
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
To those who voted "no" above, would you move to Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Cuba or Venezuela? Or are those countries just appropriate for the people who live there?
|
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:28 PM
|
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 8,702
|
Quote:
__________________
Mike Bradshaw 1980 911SC sunroof coupe, silver/black Putting the sick back into sycophant! |
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:33 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hamburg & Vancouver
Posts: 7,693
|
Quote:
(not sure how to do the green font thing)
__________________
_____________________ These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.—Groucho Marx |
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:37 PM
|
|
|
The Unsettler
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lantanna TX
Posts: 23,885
|
Quote:
I would not want to move to one of those places. People need to be ready to accept the responsibility that comes with a democracy. You can't drag them kicking and screaming into it You raised children? Did they always have an "equal" voice in your home. Or where they "ruled" until they matured enough to deal with the consequences of their "freedom". My daughter is turning 8 and has entered the early stages of a democracy. My 5 yr old boy is currently living under a dictatorship.
__________________
"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:49 PM
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hamburg & Vancouver
Posts: 7,693
|
Quote:
Great post. Very well put. Maybe sniper will understand your analogy. Maybe not. But you are a gentleman. Thank you again for the computer help not so long ago.
__________________
_____________________ These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.—Groucho Marx |
||
|
08-03-2008, 07:57 PM
|
|
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
Quote:
So folks in unfree countries are essentially children who must earn freedom? This analogy might work. 
|
||
|
08-03-2008, 08:04 PM
|
|
|
Unfair and Unbalanced
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: From the misty mountains to the bayou country
Posts: 9,711
|
What a joy it must be, to be an enlightened, forward thinking progressive.
__________________
"SARAH'S INSIDE Obama's head!!!! He doesn't know whether to defacate or wind his watch!!!!" ~ Dennis Miller! |
||
|
08-03-2008, 08:07 PM
|
|
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
Personally, all folks deserve freedom. No child or adult "deserves" to live in a dictatorship nor is a dictatorship appropriate for any adult, IMO.
So maybe Monkey's analogy doesn't translate as well as I initially thought. This is a more difficult topic to understand than I initially thought. I'm still comfortable in saying that some form of democracy or freedom is appropriate for all people, making exceptions for the parent/child relationship and criminals. |
||
|
08-03-2008, 08:16 PM
|
|
|
Fair and Balanced
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Keeping appeasers honest since 2001
Posts: 2,162
|
Quote:
Do you have any examples of a society who has been dragged into a democracy, kicking and screaming? Your infantilization of these poor enslaved folks who happened to be born in the wrong country is disdainful. |
||
|
08-03-2008, 08:32 PM
|
|
Only Porsche
Only bike
