No, I disagree entirely. They appeared to be first time parents so they probably simply do not know what their limitations are yet. They now have a baby that is 'happy' and more manageable than it has ever been so they tried going out.

I know that is exactly how it was for us after our first. Of course it went badly but in a much different way than the current example we're discussing.

First time parents are children too and I really don't think these people were doing much wrong and what they were doing wrong was easily forgivable.

There were a few ways that this could have gone as I see it:

1) Parents stay home.

2) Parents go out and try harder to keep the kid quiet

3) Exactly how it happened with both folks pissed and scarred from it.

4) The 'old fart' could have approached the parents more constructively.

5) The 'old fart' and his party could have left - as I mentioned in the original post they had already been there for a while. We arrived and they were there, we were there for more than an hour before this happened. They could have left, gone next door and had a quiet cup of Tea at the blue butterfly.

I'm not saying the HAD to leave but I am saying it was an option.

I'm sure there are other ways it could have gone - I wasn't trying to cover all bases.

This was a restaurant that welcomes children and adapts to them well. They have hi-chairs but no kid's menu. They make things for kids upon request, so if you parents want some nice sushi but the kids don't want stinky fish - Oshun in El Segundo is a fantastic place to go. This place is not an 'upscale' place at all but I don't want to downplay it. It's a nice place, I go there a lot and they don't have problems with kids coming in to eat.

Now Airline travel is something entirely different than a restaurant. I hate it, I hate putting my kid in the situation and I hate exposing the folks who are also traveling with us to the possibility that my kid may not be able to cope with being crammed into a pressurized metal tube and shot through the sky. My family is spread out on both coasts and to visit I have to travel. My Dad and his wife simply won't fly since 9/11 and all the crap that goes with it. My grandparents are in their late 80s and have handicaps that make it hard to fly. I want my kid to know them so I take them at least once a year. We've had good flights and bad flights but I think generally we've been lucky. We've got another coming up in November with 2 kids and us...I am not looking forward to it - At all.

Flying with kids on planes is hard and the general traveler and even the crews don't seem to have ANY sympathy or compassion on these kids and their parents. Granted there are bad kids and bad parents but there are also good kids and good parents having bad days and you can bet that any day spent in an airport these days is probably not going to be a good day.

"Scarred"?!? Good gawd...it's just dinner.

That being said, hopefully the "new parents" learned something. I'm a parent, but I realize that not everyone wants to hear "my delightful boy." I get so sick of parents who think that the world revolves around their kids, and their behavior is "cute" or somehow endearing.

It isn't.

Sorry, but imho a parent with a young kid is on thin ice taking them to a restaurant. They should assume that *no one* wants to hear the kid. And if there is a scene, they should remove the kid from the environment immediately and get control of the child. And if they can't get control, then they should leave.

btdt. I've left more than one meal. Sorry, but I think that parents have an obligation to others, not just their darling son/daughter. Keep 'em quiet, or take them to Chucky Cheese, or eat at home.

?

Did the old man get up immediately and say something obnoxious to the parents 5 min after they arrived? Your initial telling does not suggest that is the case. Likewise, if some time passed with the child being loud, was there any indication that the family was trying to not disturb other patrons? Is simply saying something to the family not acceptable?

Why couldn't the family have stayed at home? And, parenthetically, why should the old folks move - although to avoid confrontation they might have if they were done with their meal.

Do you know that this was the family's first time out with the kid? Furthermore, if the kid isn't quiet at home (also how would you know this), why would you take the child out to any restaurant, kid friendly or not? I don't buy that the parents are first timers is any kind of excuse. There was a time when my child was not fit for restaurants. Difficulty eating at home and managing shopping were well known. We simply didn't take her out until she got her act together, because we knew we'd be coming home before they served us.

EDIT: I forgot to add, that having high chairs doesn't mean they are kid friendly, especially without a children's menu of any kind (I'm interpreting the lack of kids menu to include nothing that is Japanese either). They may be accomodating only because of their location....

I don't know any of that - I was only interpreting some possibility.

It is entirely possible that it was the 9th child and that they simply don't give a crap.

I STILL disagree, respectfully with you.

I have tried to make this clear, this restaurant is kid friendly. It is, it isn't chuck E. Cheese - deal with it. It is.

It is still my opinion but whatever.

These are the obstacles that parents and non-parents face. There are always people - parents or not - who feel that kids should be seen and not heard. There are always people who impose themselves on others and others who simply cannot tolerate being imposed upon.

Before I start taking this personally, as I do have strong feelings about children not being tolerated on airplanes I am out.

Well don't take it personally, there were no caps in my posts, just reasonable (I thought) questions and an attempt to examine the issue from both sides.

Hence my spinning on my heals and asking for a booth at a freaking Cheesecake Factory, as soon as I saw those snotty old ladies I knew it was going to be tense and even if my 4.5 year old was silent the dirty looks would send me over the edge.

I hate snooty wealthy people that think their crap does not stink.

If I was that couple I would have asked to have my table moved after the grumpy old man did his thing, then he would have looked like the idiot in all this as the employees went out of their way to help out the young couple and their kid.

Mike I am with you 100% in a kid friendly place you need to chill, if he wanted the ambiance and quiet of a 5 star he should have went to one.

Thats a fine way to raise the next generation of ignorant self absorbed brats.

Don't take it personally, Mike. You posted to hear opinions; and I think everybody's keeping it pretty constructive.

If someone complains about a loud kid, they are snooty and wealthy?

I'm tired of parents who think that the world revolves around their kid. I'm also tired of parents who think they deserve a night out at the expense of other people.

No one forced them to have kids. The *parents* should be the one's to sacrifice, not the public around them. There often is a sense of entitlement that parents seem to have that can be incredibly annoying. Like the world should stop and cater to them and their kids. I'm all for doing what I can to accommodate a parent who is struggling with their kids, but that is because I'm being nice, not because they deserve it.

If your kid can't behave in a quiet manner in a public place, then have the balls to remove them. I've lost track of the times I've seen/heard the kid throwing a fit and the parents just ignore it and keep eating, bound and determined to stay the course on "their" night out.

Parents who don't control their kids in a public place or plan ahead are the ones who are "ignorant self absorbed brats". If they are being a good parent the last thing they have to worry about is having a child quietly watch a cartoon during dinner at a place where it's not appropriate for that child to act his age.

Amen to that.

They should take the kids someplace else if the kids are not behaving- not reward them for being bad with tv's everywhere to keep their heads numb.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

Too loud...GET OUT!!!


KT

Agreed, I would not "reward" a child for behaving badly. I would however be smart enough to bring something to make the experience bearable for a child who it's unfair to expect to sit still quietly for an hour. It's not important if it's a movie on an iPhone, a coloring book, quiet toy, etc. What is important is that the parents are smart enough to know their kids, plan accordingly, and act right themselves should a situation arise.

Times have changed. When my kids were small they're now 19&23, we used to take them, and friends, to the Chatsworth Drive In. I think it's been closed for at least a decade.

There, I fixed that for you.

SmileWavy

unless the "cranky old guy" was acting up and throwing food, your fix is BS.

I believe in a certain amount of decorum in public. Just like I don't care for people loudly cursing in public, neither do I care for unruly kids in restaurants, theaters, etc. People should act respectfully. I have no problem with kids at a restaurant as long as they behave. If they don't, then I expect the parents to step in.

I don't blame the kids at all - they are being kids. I blame the parents for putting them in the position in the first place, and not doing their job.

And in answer to your original question - yes, my son has a mute button. It is called me taking him outside and being the parent in the relationship.

And there you go!

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

Tell him what he wins, Johnny.


KT

+1 And that's what it comes down to.

There is disagreement about what constitutes appropriate public behavior, and parents, as the social guidance for their children, obviously will inculcate what they think is acceptable behavior.

Which leads us to the question: why do we see so many adults acting like children?


KT