Once again, Stuart, you're completely right.

It's truly shocking how many times you end up completely right while withstanding these unfounded and baseless personal attacks from the intellectually inferior. I am humbled.

P.S. It isn't that I dislike YOU. I have no idea who YOU are. I dislike your wanton disregard and disrespect for anyone who disagrees with you. I dislike your disingenuous behavior, slinging around personal attacks while claiming to be assailed by same. I don't dislike YOU, Stuart, I dislike the way you discuss things on this board. You would think after being called a troll and worse by multiple people on the board you might at least try to take a look at what behaviors might be causing that scorn. I guess not.

Since I know you will have to have the last word, I will tell you in advance that I'm done with you on this thread. Flame away.

Can't muster an argument? Faith and science are orthogonal unless someone tries to force one upon the other. There is no relevant/significant argument beyond that imho. And if you think I don't understand the scientific method, think again.

There is nothing to muster...unless you just want to hear yourself talk.

My apologies, that is not I what I meant. I meant that you are able to argue an idea without resorting to personal attack.

I will have last word Rick, I am really am over your continuing with this line.

Troll. Where?
Intellectually inferior. Where?
Disingenous. Where?
Disrespect. Where?
Personal attack. Where?

More unsupported, unproductive and just plain nasty stuff.

The thread is not about me Rick, its about atheism and rationalism. Youve shown you dont want to talk about that. Today I challenged something you posted and staright away, you attack me- the default.

So I wonder who is trolling. Im sorry to say it, but i wont miss you.

It seems to me that pure science will always surpass religious faith. But, science and spirituality...well that seems orthogonal.

Orthogonal??

I think they are more parallel than orthogonal. They are the two tattered edges of a piece of fabric that has been torn in half, and the abyss in between the ripped edges is the world. Both science and philosophy define part of that abyss, but they do not completely define it unless both exist. They came from a single thing (the untorn fabric), but in the processes of being torn asunder, each frayed edge was distorted enough that they can never be put back together.


I sometimes wonder if I really still exist, or if I'm a figment of my own imagination...what with being a scientist who has some spirituality and philosophy tossed in. According to some folks on both sides of this discussion, I shouldn't exist.

I think that part of the problem is that some of those in science have entrenched themselves so much against spirituality that marrying the two together will likely be impossible. Unfortunately the camps have separated tremendously and zealots abound on both sides. Personally I think the physical and spiritual world are intertwined and eventually science will bear that out...

Do you want to see them be married? I personally don't, I think they should remain in their independent arenas. Each does what it needs to do well, but is a miserable failure at doing what the other does. I don't see any good coming from having them merge in any way.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that I think that eventually we will find scientific answers for what many currently consider the spiritual side of the human condition. My only question is once we discover those things, will we be able to see them as spiritual or will it simply become another part of the human machine?

Ah, I understand, and I find that to be a terrifying thing you have brought up...