I Won't forgive Myself, but Hope You will
 

I feel so dirty.

Last night, as I was boiling some pasta for dinner, I watched the History Channel. A program came on that outlined the work of a twelfth-century engineer named Al Jazari. He lived in what is now Iraq.

In hindsight, I can now see that this program was a clever attempt on the part of the liberal media (you guys are sooooo right) to indoctrinate me into hateful and anti-American thinking. You see, the program was very impressive from a technical perspective. This Al Jazari fellow was, according to the program, frighteningly clever. He invented a bunch of stuff we have arguably "re-invented" lately (their term).

So anyway, I now realize that this guy was almost certainly a Muslim (which as you guys have vigorously pointed out is a synomym for "terrorist"). And an Iraqi. It is with great embarrassment to admit to you guys I found myself admiring his inventions. I know now that he must have been a hateful and treacherous enemy of the world. And I know our new goal is to wipe Muslims from the face of the planet. But I wonder how I can re-arrange my thinking to conclude he was not that smart. You see, objectively, it appears as though he WAS smart. In fact, it appears that the Muslim world at that time was quite academic and creative. Sure, I know you guys' position.......that Muslims are virtually uncivilized and backward, and that their level of education and understanding is Neanderthal compared to ours, but I wonder how I can reconcile that with the fact that this Muslim inventor was way ahead of the machines we use today.

Should I just shoot myself in the head? In case I allow myself to live another day, what term is worse......"liberal" or "Muslim?"

Museral?

No, don't shoot yourself in the head.

We will forgive you if you'll just calm down a minute...

...and forgive yourself. :D

What kinda stuff did they say he invented?

Did he wipe with toilet paper or his bare hand? Maybe that is why you feel so "dirty".

Ask her: Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

It will be ok as long as you have HOPE.

But was his shop union?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Jazari

Then there's Alhazen.

It took you long enough to see the light. That the final solution to the Muslim problem should be their elimination from Western society as they are nothing but vermin bent on the corruption of our essence.. If GW Bush has the right to send good American boys into battle and their possible deaths, he certainly has the right to wipe out the vermin that dilutes our essence of national character.

Good for You Super... now it is up to you to join with us in the Republican Party and NRA to carry out America's divine mission to bring peace, freedom and democracy to the rest of the humanity. The ones who oppose our divine mission will be eliminated as being unfit for our good offices.

If the USA should fail in it's divine mission then the USA will have proved to be too weak and would be undeserving of its divine mission and should be left to its fate. Of being devoured by the vermin of the world.

"The purity of essence of our precious bodily fluids"???

Devine?

:confused::confused:

Here all this time I thought is was the Muslim religion's primary objective to irradiate all Infidels... It is their religion that is (still) invasive, not the rest of the World's. I'm additionally perplexed at why you often talk as though the US is the only Country that is or has been affected by Muslim-backed terrorism.

Also, why would/should their way of life or education ("uncivilized and backward" or otherwise) make any difference? We get along just fine with the Amish. I wonder why? Oh yeah, the don't hold the belief that all non-Amish must die. Why should other non-Muslim civilizations be punished because they have progressed, and not remained stagnant or even regressed? Those are the questions you should be asking, instead of feeling sorry for yourself and your political party by spouting woe-is-me BS.

Where is Peoria, AZ?

I want to drink the water there:cool:

Nah, we know better than to drink the water here. Enviroment-crushing water bottles all the way! :D

Eric, I think you missed it. Sure, I know that radical Muslim fundamentalists take the position that all Infidels must be eradicated. The observation that gave rise to this thread is not this belief but rather the belief of some folks here that all Muslims should be eradicated. Muslim = Terrorist. I think you're smart, Eric. I think you can cogently evaluate this assertion (Muslim = Terrorist).

Eric,

Supe likes to argue with imaginary foes - usually designated by "you guys" or "you folks" or "some folks." Don't read too much into it.

I don't recall him being shorted in the history classes I have taken. I knew who he was, and what he did.

The Problem is that due to issues we have had between the northern European world, and the muslim word have caused a bunch of problems on the transfer of knowledge.

And indeed a few of his devices were "reinvented" by other people later.

The Muslims held the words knowledge for a long time. If it hadn't been for them, the dark ages would have been a much longer darker period I think.

Can you truly say they are making the most of their legacy? I don't think they are.

What the hell can she possibly know that would compare to what The Brain of Steel saw on the History channel?

Say "12 hail Marys" and rub your rosary beads 15 times before bed and perhaps you TOO can be SAY-YAVVED!

Ah have SEE-YEN the LAWRD'S powah! Naw beee-yah...a GOOD BOYAH, and vote for a republican raht A-WAY! And put a large check marked to my personal bank account in the mail right away.

No wait- put the check in the mail first and then vote for those republicans... gotta keep those conservative priorities straight!

N

Nothing at all wrong with the twelfth century. Not a thing. Just good not to be stuck in it.

You know things have moved forward a bit - freeing of the serfs, reformations, enlightenments, modernity. Not all bad stuff. I for one am not feeling guilty we have gone in that direction..SmileWavy

As far as contributions to mankind - the muslims are left wanting. Way back in the day, they probably did have incredible success and contributed mightily to the wealth of human knowedge. Lately, however, they pretty much suck.

For instance - more books are translated into Spanish in a single year than have been translated into Arabic in the last thousand (that's directly from a 2002 UN report). And Mein Kampf is owned by more Muslims than Germans.

In the last year, less than 100 patents were awarded to the whole of the muslim population. Meanwhile, South Korea was awarded over 20,000.

The combined 2007 GDP for every country in the Arab League plus Iran (not a member of the Arab League) was $1.7 trillion. The GDP for Italy - $1.7 trillion.

I'm sure that Iraqi engineer is amazing. I'm sure that among the other 1 billion muslims there are many wonderful scientists, scholars, and doctors. But for a group that is 1 billion strong, they need to pick up the freakin' pace!!!

I don't care what the history books say, if the guy wiped his azz with his bare hand..... that is just plain nasty.

And really, isn't that what it's all about?

Supe, you're bordering on troll status.

Really! Why complicate the issue anymore than this?

Just teasing, Matt. Poking some folks in the ribs. Friendly-like. I'm really not as offensive as you guys imagine.

then again.....yeah, I do like to stir things up a bit. In college, my roommate was an Atheist and a Libertarian. I am Catholic and socialist. Imagine the discussions. We were roommates for three years. I miss those discussions.

He must have loved listening to your ass.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise!

Ian

Ayaan Hirsi Ali wants to reform Islam and bring it into the 20th Century -- maybe even the 21st. I agree that everyone hsould learn about her and her efforts.

At one time Islam was by far the most advanced civilization - around 1,000 AD or so. Islam needs to ask itself what happened.

I've seen all this before. They invented all this wonderment, & still lived like barbarians and only have obscure, confused, old books to show the greatness of their culture. Your boy Al Jazari. here's his story.

"In 1206, al-Jazari published a book in which he demonstrated some understanding of the use of a crank for producing reciprocal rotary motion. "No secure evidence evidence for it is found in Europe earlier than c. 1405" (White 1962:111). The crank had been understood at least as early as Archimedes, but presumably forgotten in the Dark Ages."

I don't expect you to believe me so below is their story. As you're reading it, ask yourself why this "great" culture was herding goats in the desert & wiping their asses with their hands, until the white devil arrived?

You see Islam in America whenever you use shampoo a product introduced to London by Mahomed’s Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759. You have all heard to Icarus and Dedulas, but you never hear about Abbas ibn Firnas a man who jumped from the minaret of the mosque in Cordoba in 852 and flew for a few minutes. Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. Jabir ibn Hayyan invented Sulphuric and Nitric Acid as well as Al-cohol. al-Jazari invented the crank-shaft to raise water for irrigation. The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq. Muslims doctors also invented anaesthetics of opium and alcohol mixes and developed hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes in a technique still used today.

The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. One has to be blind not to see it in the Moorish architecture of 5th Avenue synagogues. One has to illiterate not to realize that our numbering system is called Arab numerals. One has to be really bigoted to ignore the 526 names of towns that are Muslim names, Alhambra, Medina, Palestine, Allahbumya (Alabama), T Allah hasse (Talahasee) .One has to be Islamphobic not to know that Columbus sailed with Muslim sailors using Muslim inventions like the astrolabe and Muslim maps. One has to be rabidly anti-Muslim not to realize the Alhambra arches of California homes are Muslim in origin.

It would be tragic to ignore the 800 year old Jewish-Christian-Muslim symbiosis in Muslim Spain that created the renaissance and transported Greek and Roman knowledge to Latin Christians. Egos, imperial hubris and contempt for all other ideas will surely prohibit some to admit their own faults for BEARING FALSE WITNESS and not taking the trouble to find out the real truth. America or Europe was not born in a vacuum and all knowledge did not emanate from the fountains of Sorbonne and Oxford without any prior or current interaction with Al Azhar and Cordoba. The very word college is base don the Arabic “Kulliat” . Tulipomania in the Netherlands was based on getting the Tulips from Turkey. Beethoven based his 9th symphony on Turkish Janessarian music. Some may also refuse to read Islamo-Christian Civilization by Dr. Boulliett.

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So is your point that not all muslims are terrorists?

Is anyone actually arguing that they are or is this just your strawman of the day?

Heck, even I know that the muslims in Chicago aren't terrorists...

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It was the Catholics that tossed, aka killed, them out of Spain. It was their greatest moment then comes along some queen that's menstruating.

then they missed the industrial revolution, on purpose, and couldn't put together a large enough military to go out and provide wealth for their population the old fashioned way. Russia's Putin should be their spiritual leader and things would be less complicated.

The one advancement that did more to advance islam than any other was Damascus steel. It made superior swords. Once Europe surpassed that, islam began the decline that put them where they are today. All islamic wealth exists solely and completely because of the blue eyed devil, PERIOD!

If anyone truly has any interest in some of the history . . .

Watch this. When the Moors Ruled in Europe (This is Part 1 of 11 - watch them all)

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Ian

It was the Moops!

The titles mention people converting to islam voluntarily but they don't support the claim. The long and short is that the muslims conquered Spain, not Europe. Began living more like Europeans and less like muslims, then were overcome & overthrown, with the history being written less than accurately. Produced by a woman & her husband who are both converts to islam.

you appear to have forgotten algebra, and thousands of other cultural advancements and technological innovations, not to mention the great libraries, the poets,...